Superpercharged diesel - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lars1 · #1 05-11-2009, 07:01 AM

How much air (cfm) do a myna 603/6 engine need for 400hp?

Imagine an Eaton M112 with 2:1 drive. Then it would flow 700cfm at 6000 engine rpm iaw the graph at the link. Is that SC even close to provide enough air/pressure through the engine rev-range from idle to 6000? http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_mp112_4th.htm

Must be awesome with instant power and NO smoke what so ever if it can deliver enough air.. It is a pretty cheap ebay item as well.

http://www.harrop.com.au/root_folder/superchargers/eaton-m112.html

winmutt · #2 05-11-2009, 07:43 AM

Canola rollerz used a supercharger in their LeMons entry I believe.

#3 05-11-2009, 08:00 AM

Superchargers, especially a roots blowers, are very inefficient.

Notice Delta temperature of 230*f at only 10psi, thats under 50% compression efficiency! Most turbos, especially modern GT models, will be in the 75% efficiency range at that pressure.

On top of that, the MP112's $3000 price tag would buy a very good VGT turbo, a stainless steel exhaust and an intercooler.

Superchargers are good for low pressure applications (g@ssers), not high pressure diesels. If you want a supercharger, I'd look for a good used M90 and use it in a sequential twincharger setup to eliminate the blower's inefficiency.

lars1 · #4 05-11-2009, 09:22 AM

Thanks.

Oki, so a sequential SC would maybe be the thing in order to avoid turning it into a heatpump at higher boostlevels/rpmlevels..

Maybe sequ M112 feeding a M90 would do it? or is it better with a Lysholm or centrifugal for diesel applications

Any links to dragrace/tractorpull SC diesels?

#5 05-11-2009, 11:14 AM

Centrifugal superchargers are trash. They combine worse lag than a turbo and the crankshaft horsepower robbing of a supercharger.

My point was: Don't use a supercharger as your primary boost provider, they do not work well at all with diesels. At most its good for off the line power, but nitrous or a VGT turbo will do just as good a job.

polarisrmk · #6 05-11-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Centrifugal superchargers are pure trash. They combine worse lag than a turbo and the crankshaft horsepower robbing of a supercharger.

My point was: Don't use a supercharger as your primary boost provider, they do not work well at all with diesels. At most its good for off the line power, but nitrous or a VGT turbo will do just as good a job.

Forced you have a point. But if you stack the charger on the turbo then its all better. Also there is a centrifugal charger that is more efficient than any turbo. Has anyone heard of the Koenigsegg CCX? Rotrex? Ok so i sell these superchargers

Planning on putting one on my 126 this summer. Very small and very efficient. Going to get rid of all that lag

#7 05-11-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarisrmk

But if you stack the charger on the turbo then its all better.

Its worse actually, the efficiency decrease is compounded because one is feeding the other hot air and its heated even more.

Quote:

Also there is a centrifugal charger that is more efficient than any turbo.

It still has worse lag and takes power directly from the crank.

polarisrmk · #8 05-11-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Its worse actually, the efficiency decrease is compounded because one is feeding the other hot air and its heated even more.

It still has worse lag and takes power directly from the crank.

Thats what you think but its in fact the opposite. As far as the Hot air yes you would have to intercool it. Trust me we put many of these chargers on diesels. with amazing results both dyno results and road test results.

#9 05-11-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarisrmk

Thats what you think but its in fact the opposite.

Search "Ideal gas law".

A VNT/VGT will get rid of lag just as well with far less complication, work and cost.

polarisrmk · #10 05-11-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Search "Ideal gas law".

A VNT/VGT will get rid of lag just as well with far less complication, work and cost.

When i get mine on i will post the dyno results and then we can see

Full CNC Shop and laser cutting shop with farro arm for doing all the prototyping. Shouldn't be all that tough or complicated. (BTW i did this for my TDI, IT WORKS!!!!) Its not the normal centrifugal supercharger everyone is used to.

search "Someone that may have actual experiance with the unit"

Not being a douche just don't knock it till you try it or actually see it

#11 05-11-2009, 04:17 PM

A supercharger is a supercharger, its not as efficient and it takes power directly from the crank. Diesels will run fine with high intake temperatures, so just because it runs and makes decent power doesn't mean its not heating the hell out of the air.

polarisrmk · #12 05-11-2009, 04:29 PM

Thats what the intercooler is for. I know how to do it ... like i said I have done this before! Not my first rodeo partner. And if you truely think that a "supercharger is a supercharger" you may want to do some research. Anyone that knows anything about them will disagree with you totally and completely. You are so concerned about it connecting to the crank. What do you think that big restriction in your exhaust is doing????

Look up worlds fastest snowmobile you will find me.

mytmousemalibu · #13 05-11-2009, 04:31 PM

As stated, superchargers are creating parasitic HP loss, I dont belive in them being pure trash on diesels, Even centrafugals!

A company called Empire Diesel Performance is doing great things with superchargers on diesels! http://www.empiredieselperformance.com/jm/

Heres an LMM Dmax making significant boost reving in neutral! Look up some more of there vids on youtube. There not the only ones in the diesel world doing magic with blowers on diesels. ALSO, the blower/turbo combo is also being used to spool some very large chargers that would be hard to do otherwise. No reason any of this cant apply to MB diesels. Gotta pay to play!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VFFEuahB0M

#14 05-11-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarisrmk

Anyone that knows anything about them will disagree with you totally and completely.

Let them. I have yet to see any that will step up and show me this information.

Quote:

You are so concerned about it connecting to the crank. What do you think that big restriction in your exhaust is doing?

Physical horsepower. The turbo is harnessing an existing potent energy source and puts it to work. A supercharger directly takes crankshaft energy that could otherwise be put to the ground.

Quote:

A company called Empire Diesel Performance is doing great things with superchargers on diesels! http://www.empiredieselperformance.com/jm/

Humm, all I see is junk.

Quote:

Heres an LMM Dmax making significant boost reving in neutral!

A VNT can do the same.

polarisrmk · #15 05-11-2009, 04:48 PM

Not worth arguing. I have seen the results, I design Forced air systems, and have built plenty more of them than you i am sure. If there is anyone esle that is willing to keep an open mind about this let me know and i can give you some of my insight.