606 turbo full load adjustment? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Olivier · #16 09-03-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdisav

Looking forward to the pictures also.

The chip tuning is www.speedtuningusa.com. Oliver will hook you up. Tell him you want the aggressive tuning.

Thank you for this, a wee too expensive for me though, I will ned to stick to the manual tweaking then...

KarTek · #17 09-03-2009, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auspumpen

Ok, so the rack position sensor is a simple Tab A slides into Slot B arrangement, which of course determines where along a finite continuum the rack is, relative to full stop and full load. The rack doesn't appear to have any mechanical means of adjusting its full load, like the 603 pumps.

The rack position pin numbers are as follows:

#1 = Red
#6 = Green
#7 = Black

The two remaining pins correspond with the rack solenoid.

Thanks for posting these! Could you get another couple detail shots of the position sensor? I'm having trouble figuring out what type of sensor it is and what sort of signal it generates to report rack position.

I'm looking at developing a simple mod that alters the signal from the position sensor and allows for more rack movement.

I guess this would be something like a "full load" adjustment but accomplished electronically!

auspumpen · #18 09-03-2009, 09:10 AM

Sure, I didn't realize the pics would show up so tiny when I uploaded them. I'll post up some close-up shots later this afternoon.

Tymbrymi · #19 09-03-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auspumpen

Sure, I didn't realize the pics would show up so tiny when I uploaded them. I'll post up some close-up shots later this afternoon.

Awesome!!! Thanks for the previous pics.

One of my long term plans is to put a 606 pump on my wagon (that will FINALLY be road legal at the end of the month), and I'll need to control that rack somehow.

Is there any circuitry on that PCB or is it just used as a sort of internal bridge/connector?

On the pump picture, what is the screw and the arm with the pin for? To me, it looks like that is the rack stop position. Trimming that down wouldn't likely be any benefit to a stock/chipped controller since the chip will use the rack position sensor to keep it where it expects it to be.

auspumpen · #20 09-04-2009, 02:01 AM

Ok, here's what I have to share. The copper colored unit appears to slide along with the rack sensor, and act as an inductive trigger, telling the computer where the rack is relative to the start and end points. The 603 pumps have the same provisions. The center post in the sensor fits into the copper opening and works through inductivity to determine where the rack is presently along that continuum.

KarTek · #21 09-04-2009, 08:26 AM

I'm still having a tough time getting my head around how that sensor measures the rack position.

I gather that the sensor is in a fixed position? Maybe there's a coil of wire inside the plastic part and it detects the position of the "bulb" shaped part on the rack...

I did some reading on variable inductance position sensors and it seems quite complicated.

auspumpen · #22 09-04-2009, 01:04 PM

Yes, the sensor itself is fixed, and the copper ring on the rack slides alongside that center post. Other than the large solenoid actuator, there doesn't appear to be any other electronics in there, even under the plastic cover. Everything is managed via the ECU. We need to get an electrical engineer to help explain how this all works 'cause this clearly ain't my specialty.

KarTek · #23 09-04-2009, 01:07 PM

OK, I see now, the square copper ring moves with the rack. From the first picture, it looks like it was fixed to the body of the pump...

auspumpen · #24 09-04-2009, 01:18 PM

Yep, with both the 603 and 606 pumps, there's just a copper ring riveted to the rack, and they slide in and out with the throttle movements.

To reiterate the original point of this investigation, there is no mechanical means of increasing the full load stop on these 606 pumps. A "chipped" computer simply tells the actuator solenoid to extend its stroke to a maximum depth under WOT. I'd love to see how the ECU would handle larger pump elements.

KarTek · #25 09-04-2009, 01:30 PM

Thanks.

I have a zip-lock bag full of 7mm elements in the kitchen at home... I'll find out how the ECU handles it when I put them in I reckon...

Tymbrymi · #26 09-07-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek

I have a zip-lock bag full of 7mm elements in the kitchen at home... I'll find out how the ECU handles it when I put them in I reckon...

Where'd you get those from!!

The ECU shouldn't know any bit of difference. I think the only closed-loop control is with the rack position sensor, and it doesn't monitor anything else regarding fuel. This is how TDI people upgrade their cars... larger injectors and the ECU never knows the difference. That being said, I sure hope you'll have an EGT gauge!

The only problem I can think of is the MAF... With extra air you might get the turbo spooled up faster, etc and be flowing more air than the ECU expects. Well, in order to make any real power you'll need to be flowing more anyway. Don't know how the computer handles that. Also keep in mind that your turbo is pretty small!

G'luck!

Olivier · #27 09-07-2009, 04:41 PM

Have you seen Evan's new turbo???

mdisav · #28 09-08-2009, 09:56 AM

Auspumpen, Have you put voltage to the rack solenoid to see if it extends past 5volts? Do we know what the full load voltage input is stock for the solenoid?

KarTek · #29 09-08-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdisav

Auspumpen, Have you put voltage to the rack solenoid to see if it extends past 5volts? Do we know what the full load voltage input is stock for the solenoid?

I believe it's square wave PCM but I'm not sure what the voltage is. I think I need an ocilliscope to really test it.

mdisav · #30 12-14-2009, 08:45 PM

I have a 3 bar aftermarket map sensor because I was maxing out the stock one at 25psi. At 25psi the max voltage of the sensor was 4.4 volts. I raised the boost to 30psi and the sensor read 4.7 volts and the car had no more power and no extra fuel.

The throttle position sensor maxed at 4.4 volts with the pedal to the floor. It has a mechanical stop limiting its travel.

Anyone know if 5 volts is read from the throttle position sensor will the rack solenoid add more fuel? Maximum rack solenoid travel is 19.5mm.

I do not know how to get past 4.4 volts without grinding the stop off the tps. Then again if I did that, I do not know if I can get more voltage or not and if it will end up giving more travel at the rack.

Any thoughts???