Quote: Originally Posted by tomnik Yes, yes, yes!!! After setting up the 603a M-IP with 7.5mm I know what I am talking about. I wish there is a MW 6 cylinder for the 60x engines. The reason is the adjustment of balancing the individual timing on both designs. On the M the rollers have to be exchanged, which means that the cam has to go out. On the MW you just shim the barrel from out side. On top the rollers are not cheap. Either you have a complete set of them with different diameters or (in my case) you have to measure, calculate and order the necessary diameter (and hope that it is available). The you start from the beginning. An experienced bench guy will do this only once, I had to do it more than one time and most of standard bench shops won't care about. I learned this when I ordered the rollers. This also shows how important it is to find a good bench shop. On the other hand the result is only a roughly running engine Tom I have not seen the rollers yet, but I am thinking they are just hardened steel rollers. If they are not some complex thing, I can have them ground to fit and rehardned, (if necessary), or just make them myself. Either way the M pump will be a lot more labor to get it set up "correctly". I would be interested to see how close Myna gets a M pump to being "correct", this includes where the end of injection takes place. Tomnik, am I correct in thinking that your 7.5MM "M" pump Elements are designed with a better end of injection point in mind than Myna's 7mm elements have? The MW is a much better design IMO, but the 60X guys are stuck with the M pumps. This means I would be going head to head with Myna's, (out of country), reputation. I am good with that but would need a good source for 7.5mm elements for the M pump. I am looking at a couple of "Commercial" benches, but they are so big with all that mechanical drive garbage to fail, and I would have to still to put all the measurement parts on one. I will be offering a LABOR DISCOUNT to the first 5 customers. I will need to recover the cost of the bench as quickly as possible. Anyone who is serious and willing to be a trail blazer, (there are a couple already), PM me with what pump you have and what you want to end up with. This could be from just tuning the Governors to fix the return to idle problems, (while maintaining or increasing the current fueling curve), to custom elements and or Governor springs installed and Governor tune. Every pump will have a graphed print out showing the fueling curves. I will stand behind my work, but parts are on there own.

I apologize in advance if this is an intrusion, but I did want to let everyone know that we have a tuning service up and running. I can fully appreciate wanting to test your own pump, and this is a great thread!

As of right now, we have an M pump getting ready for some quality time on the bench, fitted with Tomnik's ultra high quality 7.5mm Floyd elements. Tom and I have been in the testing phase for some time now, and will soon have solid metrics with respect to the Floyd elements. When this occurs, I shall post the results, along with additional information.

Another facet to consider when using less than optimal quality elements, is internal fuel delivery leakage. This will result in fuel dilution of the engine oil, so it will need to be monitored very closely, and the oil changed often.

For reference, we do have the $100K+ bench, and are Bosch trained professionals.

Thanks!

Sincerely,

David @ DervTuning

WOW! I will say that you have balls being that your first post is a hijacking and insulting one.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for competition, best man wins and all, but at least have the decency or respect to start your own thread and slam me from there.

You did not say what you will charge to use your 100K+ bench and Professional Bosch technicians. Don’t just tease us. What is the price to put 7.5mms, and governor tune of a 617 / 603 / 606 M pump?

the cooperation with David is running since summer 2009.
The thread was not to high jack yours, it is just the information that the swap and set up in the US already exists, the first few jobs are in progress right now.
Not for competition and not for keeping exclusivity but David is already in progress. The cost will be determined after the first lab rat's swaps to get an idea of complexity and required time. The goal is to get the elements swapped in the US following a kind of standard and not shipping complete IPs over the pont.

Tom

Cool, I'm a lab rat

I appreciate the explanation of your partners poorly worded post. I have a good feel for your intentions and I believe you to be an up and up guy.

I would be very surprised if your partner did not want an exclusive deal in exchange for the R&D time

see it the other way: I have the elements!
I am not making profit with selling the elements, just want to get the money back that I paid. The >2 years of developing, many phone calls and paying for instructions and some parts for the scrap bin not included. This is hobby and I got in contact with highly interesting people.
But I insist on results of installing these elements that pull the full potential out of them, no matter who will do it. David is one of them, at least he has the means, understanding and the will to do it. And he is already in progress.
I don't want to call up a competitor situation, I just want to get my elements work properly. I also learned ($$) that it makes sense to pay for the swap and set up (done by a specialist) rather than walking the hard way on your own.
And you can be sure that I will keep my eyes also on the cost for swap and set up of my elements - I have the elements

Tom

Tom,

I totally understand your position and ideology regarding the completion or your work, (installing the elements), and have a great deal of respect for you due to that.

My objection to David's first post was not in regards to your products or his processes to install them for you, exclusive or not, makes no difference to me. I think the M pump would be a pain to fine tune to the degree I would want it, and that will make it more expensive to set up than an MW.

I will order some aftermarket 8mm and 10mm MW elements and put them through some quality tests.

If they pass, I will them determine if I want to modify the plungers and possibly the barrel feed holes. If that can be done successfully, I have a couple return MW clients that I will put them in. After that I may build up one every now and them and put it on e-bay.

Tom, if I have offended you in any way, I sincerely apologize, it was not my intention. I also want to thank you for you incite as to my experimentation with the MW aftermarket elements. I truly wish you good luck with you work.

Dave

Dave,

no problem.
We don't need to invent the wheel twice.
I always will share all the information I have. Don't hesitate to contact me or even David when it comes to bench job.
Our common goal is to get larger elements running perfectly at reasonable cost no matter who does it.

Tom

Bosch 7MM elements for a M pump

PES4M70C321RS Injection Pump, application OM615.940. I haven't looked up the actual element number to see how pricey they are.

I also got a quote for some 10mm MW elements from a California aftermarket supplier. They are the same price as the 8mm ones @ $64.80ea.

I will order some samples in March for testing.

check out the 10mm MW thread on suoerturbodiesel for quality of the Californian after market stuff.
If still attractive for you better go for the 8mm.

Tom

I believe he ordered them directly from China and had them shipped to California, where he lives, hence the ”China to California” shipping reference.

I am really interested in reducing the injection time, but the 10mms just seem overkill. I'll see what the tests uncover and go from there.

Because I will only be using a short portion of the cam lift, I am thinking about grinding the cam so the plunger does not travel any further than it has to. This will reduce the amount of fuel going in and out of the barrel, increase the fill time, and possibly increase the RPM range. There is a lot of measurements I need to make first.

Does anyone know for certain, the size of the elements in the 603.970 pump (3.5L)?

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

5.5mm!

The type plate PES 6 M 55 ...
tells the plunger diameter.

Tom

Thanks Tom.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff