Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion > Diesel Performance Tuning

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:08 PM
josha37's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 482
The never ending performance quest....

So i got a 1982 mb 240d with a auto and 260k miles for fifty bucks and.. it runs! drove it for a few days and started to feel suicidal in the slow lane so i began tinkering. Replaced oil, replaced fuel filters, checked valve adjustment, removed ada (non turbo alda?), removed rack limiter, stretched fuel pressure return spring (then just blocked the line off all together ), removed muffler... and it was still a giant turd... lucky for me i am a fairly compitent technician so am able to do all this things myself. But after ALL that it still had trouble keeping up with the seventy mph speed limits around here with a decent amount of hills so.... With a little help from a turbo off of a dodge 2.4l diesel i fabbed up a set of pipes and boosted it. It has no waste gate but only makes about 10 lbs of boost so who cares . so if you have made it this far i suppose you might be interested in how well it does 0-60? about 14 seconds.... when i started i was not even sure if it would reach 60 . Any thoughts, am i missing something? My next project will be going back into the pump to fiddle with the torque capsule. <-- hopefully this is not its future, worst case i scrap it and make a profit anyways mwahaha

  #2  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:12 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,366
Hey,
Welcome to the forum!
we have a performance diesel section, and I'll move this thread there. many experienced members will love to give pointers and warnings!
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
  #3  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:25 PM
josha37's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 482
been here ten minutes and am already getting moved...
  #4  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:29 PM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
Josha,
Welcome.
Like John has said there are plenty of performance oriented people in the sub forum. No point in re-inventing the wheel!!
What sort of turbo did you use?
A $50 car that performs like that is a steal !!
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
  #5  
Old 01-06-2011, 11:01 PM
josha37's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 482
tc05 off of a 2.3L diesel dodge ram 50 (mighty max). <---Free
  #6  
Old 01-06-2011, 11:10 PM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by josha37 View Post
been here ten minutes and am already getting moved...
We just dont want you to be standing there all by your self !!

Thanks for the info on the turbo.
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
  #7  
Old 01-06-2011, 11:38 PM
scottmcphee's Avatar
1987 w124 300D
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 1,539
You need to add more fueling in this picture, that's your next step.
__________________
Cheers!
Scott McPhee

1987 300D
  #8  
Old 01-06-2011, 11:43 PM
josha37's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 482
For sure i need more fuel, just wondering if anyone who has played more than me might have some directions. i have my fingers crossed for when i finnally get around to tweaking with some more of my pump settings.
  #9  
Old 01-06-2011, 11:58 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by josha37 View Post
For sure i need more fuel, just wondering if anyone who has played more than me might have some directions. i have my fingers crossed for when i finnally get around to tweaking with some more of my pump settings.
yup. many brighter modding heads up in the performance section.
sorry I didn't move ya earlier... got in a meeting with Roy about the tool rental thread...

brace yourself...
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
  #10  
Old 01-08-2011, 09:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: virginia
Posts: 496
You should keep the return line, helps cool the IP, and also bleeds air. The fuel pump spring in a 617 turbo(300D) will give you more fuel pressure in addition to the return spring stretch. Balance the two so there is return, you can get close to 30 psi this way. Get a manuel trans too.
__________________
1977 240D turbo
  #11  
Old 01-08-2011, 12:06 PM
josha37's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 482
I think a manual trans might be a bit more work than i want to put in this thing. I stretched the spring but since it is such a SLUG i could not tell if there was any change. I suppose i could hook it back up... I have been reading on the cut delivery valves and could not get a clear idea of what "poor idle" is. I have no dillusions about this car going another 50k miles... maybe it will who knows... Just kinda wondering what the limits of the stock pump are when it is givin some positive manifold pressure.
  #12  
Old 01-09-2011, 01:58 AM
josha37's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 482
So popped the rear cover off my pump and started messing with the torque capsule.. Was unable to get the lock nut loose so began looking at the circuit and its operation and realized that what we are adjusting is simply letting the rod with the c-clip on it go in furthur and that while the engine is running it actually moves away from the nut at lower rpm ( i started it and moved the rod in and out and observed its operation and the effects it was making on idle speed and respone to increases in throttle) and that under the snap ring were (would like to emphasize the were) 5 washers. Very happy now, no idle issues and it goes down the interstate like it actually allowed to be at those speeds. Just thought i would update.
  #13  
Old 01-09-2011, 07:22 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 474
The torque capsule shouldn't be altered. All it will do is make the engine not want to return to idle and cause high EGTs in the upper RPM range.

All that should really be done to the governor on an MW pump is the rack limiter removal.
  #14  
Old 01-09-2011, 01:42 PM
10mm MW
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by josha37 View Post
So popped the rear cover off my pump and started messing with the torque capsule..
Quote:
Originally Posted by josha37 View Post

Was unable to get the lock nut loose so began looking at the circuit and its operation and realized that what we are adjusting is simply letting the rod with the c-clip on it go in furthur...

and that while the engine is running it actually moves away from the nut at lower rpm ( i started it and moved the rod in and out and observed its operation and the effects it was making on idle speed and respone to increases in throttle)...

and that under the snap ring were (would like to emphasize the were) 5 washers.
I broke up your post so I can get an idea of what you did.

I wasn’t going to say anything, but this is just too funny.

Are you saying that because you could not loosen the TQ lock nut, (requires a special tool), you decided to take the TQ apart, without having any idea what is inside? Stick around, you have, and I am sure will continue to, provide lots of entertainment! I love it!!

The c-clip retains the TQ Pushrod in the TQ Capsule, (which retains the TQ Spring). The shim thickness sets the TQ Spring Preload of the TQ Capsule.

The TQs effect on fueling, depends on the initial TQ Capsule Spring Preload, (The higher the Preload, the more pressure it takes to start to compress the Spring, and it also sets the travel of the TQ Pushrod), the TQ Spring Rate, (how much force is required to continue to compress the spring), and depth setting of the TQ Capsule, (how close to the fly weights is the TQ Pushrod, or in other words, how far out must the flyweights be, to push on the TQ (Speed Range)).

I have tried different springs in the TQ Capsule, (the Spring Rate “basically” determines the fueling curve, the Capsule Spring Preload “basically” sets the initial force required to begin to compress the push rod, and also sets the push rod travel distance before it bottoms out, and the TQ Capsule Depth Setting “basically” sets the fueling curve with in an RPM range which has to be within the limits of the TQ Spring).

If I understand correctly, you removed the shims, (changed the TQ Capsule Spring Preload), which lowered the preload, and extended the Pushrod, (Increased the distance the spring must be compressed before the Pushrod bottoms out).

Here’s the funny part, even though the way you went about what you did was reckless to say the least, the result is pretty mellow. The only performance gain will be in the RPM range between the original Pushrod setting and the new setting. You will have a little stronger bottom and beginning of the mid range, but because the Capsule Depth is the same, once the Pushrod gets to its original position, the TQ will reduce fueling the same, so you will not get the full mid range, early top end benefits of a Capsule Depth adjustment.

It is highly recommended that the TQ capsule be completely removed before it is disassembled. Even if you missed a shim or two, they will probably sit on the bottom of the governor housing for ever, then again?

Proper RW governor operation depends on a “balance” between the separate, yet related, governors, (Idle, Torque Control, and Max Speed), inside the housing. When one setting is changed, a new balance point is created. This new balance point may be desirable, but, if it is not, (slow or no return to Idle), other adjustments will need to be made in order to bring the balance point back to a desirable location.

Do yourself a favor and do the reading of the threads relating to IP governor adjustments in this forum.

With the Turbo you would really see a gain from a TQ adjustment. I have made this adjustment on several RW governors, and corrected adjustment issues as the result of under informed owners. (There is a 300D on a flat bed on its way here from Ohio).

A Torque Control, and subsequent adjustments, are very easy to loose track of, and before you know it, you are lost and don’t know how to get back. I do not recommend anyone try it with out first doing so in a controlled environment with some one who knows how to “feel out” the subsequent adjustments.

As a mentor of mine says, “Educations are expensive”. That being said, it is critical that any information you use to determine a course of action, come from some one who has actual experience, successfully tuning RW governors outside the performance range of Bosch guidelines. Anyone else is just guessing.
  #15  
Old 01-09-2011, 04:27 PM
josha37's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 482
616 thanks for your reply it was a bit sarcastic but informative non the less. I would like to start out by saying i am not by any means a specialist in mercedes diesel pumps and as far as i know i never claimed to be. I spent a year in a mercedes dealer as a tech and did as much training as humanly possiable so i have a bit of a background with mercedes. At any rate i am a chevy guy (blazer, silverado, trans am, cavalier) but this poor old sad 240d fell in my lap so i decided to "play" with it. Im not telling anyone to do what i have but see no harm in sharing it. I would like to turn the capsule in but it was getting late ill track down a tool and do it properly later but removing the shims appeared to make a improvement (i ran the engine with the cover off and moved the rod). I could see how it very easily could lead to return to idle issues but it would appear quite a bit of adjustment on mine atleast would be required. Besides like you said the improvement will only be on the lower end but god knows these sad little engines need all the help they can get getting themselves moving and i have noticed quite a bit less turbo lag. so...

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page