liquid/air intercooler

[1980sd]

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?products_id=1006

Website shown for an example.

Pros/Cons? I've fooled with front mounted intercoolers on my neon but I have no experience with these things. Maybe use a long skinny radiator behind the lower grille? I'm pretty stacked out behind the grille with a big aux. fan.

A big, ricey FMIC is awesome on an SRT4 but I'd prefer some stealth with the benz...

[libbybapa]

The two most distinct advantages in the Benz application are easier plumbing/fitment and the reduced intake tract volume. The entire intake tract volume is pressurized as boost rises, so increasing that volume results in unnecessary lag. With an air to air system it is quite difficult to route the larger diameter air hoses as opposed to the smaller diameter water hoses. The water to air radiator can also be much thinner than the air to air core and so fitment while retaining A/C is much easier. You can also get better cooling with an optimally designed water to air than you can with an optimally designed air to air system. I did air to air on mine and it was enough of a PITA and enough of a compromise that I would opt for air/water next time.

[1980sd]

The simpler air hose routing and reduced volume is one of the things that appeals to me. Lot easier to route small diameter H2O lines than great big air lines!

Any input on sizing one of these things? Looks like one of the "bullet" type ICs would be pretty easy to mount in the engine compartment.

[just-n-time]

I have turned wrenches on diesels cummins being my prefference. I always argued against the water system, when looking for power. the water is great for consistent power band, but the cool air system and a rapid spool up turbo will greate even more hp. heat in the unit either type is a killer in power. while opperating temp of 180 to 200 is great for burn rate and clean burn is important, air to air will give the bigger bang for the buck.

[libbybapa]

Either cooler can cool the charge air by the same amount, but the air to air requires more surface area within the charge cooler because the transfer rate of the heat from the charge air to the aluminum to the cooling air stream is much slower than the heat transfer rate of the charge air to the aluminum to the coolant. That additional surface area means a larger intake tract volume and so introduces additional lag. Just-in-time, if you saw worse results with liquid to air systems then they were not optimally designed, either poorly sized charged cooler, poorly sized radiator or improper flow rate. I like the simplicity of air to air coolers and the overall space savings (only one cooler instead of a cooler, radiator, pump and reservoir) when they can be plumbed easily.

[1980sd]

Install another air conditioner for the IC...

[SpecialDelivery]

I've been looking at this ever since seeing the Saab 9-3 turbo in the yard and realizing that IC will fit behind the slotted front bumper....I've been tempted to go grab it.

BUT with the HOT FL stop and go city driving I do....would a AW be a better move?

I'm thinking with the AW I COULD run a mini coil into the airbox or a vent passageway and use the AC to chill the coolant in the IC system. I also like the idea of less tubing to run and lag....flame suit on....opinions please!!

[tjts1]

Just use radiator coolant. Use a small electric pump suck up cold liquid from the lower hose and dump it into the upper after the air/water heat exchanger. It works just fine on MB's current M157 engine.
http://www.mercedespost.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/762693_47_3508_10A213_medium.jpg
Very compact setup
http://www.eurocarnews.com/media/pictorials/314/1933-web.jpg

[SpecialDelivery]

HMMMMM.....

I wonder what the coolant temp is on the cold side of the radiator at op temp...underway....

So you're saying you wouldn't go with a separate heat exchanger?

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by SpecialDelivery

HMMMMM.....

I wonder what the coolant temp is on the cold side of the radiator at op temp...underway....

It depends on ambiant temp, air flow through the radiator, cooling fan trigger temp etc. Its subject to the same variables as an air to air or air to water intercooler. The only other changes I would make is to go to a colder thermostat, more powerful electric cooling fan and colder fan temp switch.

Originally Posted by SpecialDelivery

So you're saying you wouldn't go with a separate heat exchanger?

Thats my plan for the OM603. Already ditched the clutch fan, swapped a 71c Tstat and running 75% water. In 90f LA traffic today it never touched 90c. I'm still waiting on the BMW 88c fan switch so for now I'm turning on the AUX fan manually. I haven't figured out how to turn the cross over pipe into a heat exchanger. An MB aux electric water pump is up to the task of running coolant through the heat exchanger.

[SpecialDelivery]

Originally Posted by tjts1

It depends on ambiant temp, air flow through the radiator, cooling fan trigger temp etc. Its subject to the same variables as an air to air or air to water intercooler. The only other changes I would make is to go to a colder thermostat, more powerful electric cooling fan and colder fan temp switch.

Thats my plan for the OM603. Already ditched the clutch fan, swapped a 71c Tstat and running 75% water. In 90f LA traffic today it never touched 90c. I'm still waiting on the BMW 88c fan switch so for now I'm turning on the AUX fan manually. I haven't figured out how to turn the cross over pipe into a heat exchanger. An MB aux electric water pump is up to the task of running coolant through the heat exchanger.

yeah but I cant help think it would be better off without the engine heat...it would be interesting to set it up "same loop" and then go "separate loop" later. Ford has a separate system with a refrigerant cooled coil in the tank.... keeps the chill water at a constant temp. I hear ya on running it colder via the therm and the switches...but op temp is op temp or is colder always better with engine coolant temps?

[tjts1]

Operating temperature is a range dependent on a lot of factors. I like to keep my cars at the bottom of that range.

[JustPassinThru]

Originally Posted by tjts1

In 90f LA traffic today it never touched 90c. I'm still waiting on the BMW 88c fan switch so for now I'm turning on the AUX fan manually...

Having recently replaced my radiator, thermostat, and then water pump, in that order, on my '85 300D, I can state with confidence that by far the biggest factor of the three in determining running temperature is the water pump. After replacing the first two, it was still hitting 110 C, even with a 71 degree C thermostat. After a new water pump (the old one had moderate resistance when turning the shaft by hand, with the pulley removed; the new one spun freely), I could not make it rise above 85. This was with air temperature around 65. The only difference in going to an 80 C thermostat is, with an 80 C 'stat the minimum op temp warm was 80. With the 71 C, around 78.

(I write of the car in the past tense because, on the night of September 28/29 I hit a deer in it, so, it is currently non-operational).

Tell me more about this BMW 88 C switch...

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by JustPassinThru

Tell me more about this BMW 88 C switch...

I don't know the specifics of the OM617 but on OM603 the 3 prong temp switch has a M14 x 1.5mm thread. You'll have to check if the your engine is the same. There are 2 BMW temperature switches with this same thread. BMW mounts them directly into the radiator hence the lower temp ranges.

ÜRO PARTS Part # 61318361787 = 80/88c

ÜRO PARTS Part # 61311378073 = 91/99c

Rock auto has them for $11 but they charge for shipping. It only makes sense to buy from them if ur getting other stuff shipped from same location. You will need to grab the BMW electric plug from the JY and splice it into your wiring harness.
http://doozaadoozaa.webs.com/immage/temp_sensor_pole.jpg
http://doozaadoozaa.webs.com/immage/temp_sensor_plug-circuit.jpg

[JustPassinThru]

Thanks muchly.