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  #1  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:17 AM
Oxen's Avatar
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starting from bare block 617

hi. new but this forum has a lot of info on here. so i've read some and now want to ask some questions.

please keep in mind i figure some of what i have read is nonsense



so what i have is a completely torn down 617 turbo diesel. so i want to put it together good and get some more poop when climing a hill or jumping on the freeway. "yes i know it will be hard to get it too wheelie but" thats what i want it too do. i already have the wheelie bars and ....... JOKE

ok so building a 617 from the ground up.

1. let me ask this because i did not find or read this any ware yet. can i deck the block and head a little to gain some compression and get a little more on throttle response wake it up some? beyond the pump adjustments. i dont plan to rev over 3500 rpm. gearing is set to be @22xxrpm ='s 60mph 5th gear. with my trans and gears.

2. now how much boost will the stock pump handle . some say 9 psi others claim 20psi .i don't believe a stock pump has fuel for 20. so safely "with use of a inter cooler" max useable boost for available fuel?

3. timing advance. some claim 26*. inter-cooled and a pump adjusted to do so. now what should i expect of a advanced pump. is it possible to det & ping like a gasser?

what i am doing is putting this in my jeep. i have swapped it to 1 ton axles 538 gears with dual transfer cases 39.5 inch tires. also added weight of bumpers, rock sliders and some roll cage & gear. so i want to pump the 617 up some. to tote the extra weight around on the street / freeway to go wheel / rock crawl.

last but not least. mercerdes has my new cylinder liners and pelican parts has pretty much every thign else. only crummy part is all the victor head gaskets. can i get a Elring or Goetzy? or what would you use. and are head studs a worth while investment? for a disel just running a bit over stock. not looking for massive torque but a notable increase. say like is 25-40fltbs more a lot to ask for?
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:37 AM
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I'm not really in the performace diesel camp but the stock pistons on the OM617 protrude above the surface of the block. If it wasn't for the head gasket the pistons would hit the head. I've put some measurements of a NON TURBO OM617 engine here - some of the data might help give you an idea of the engine.

OM617 (non turbo) cam profile specs, piston height specs etc

You might also want to look through the factory service manual that's available for free via www.startekinfo.com => but be warned their website is pretty useless...


...I don't think that increasing the compression ratio is going to help produce more power in an OM617 though - work in other places would probably be beneficial.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:52 PM
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Looks like ill just build a tite engine. Do the porting and adjust the pump. Considering i do mainly off riad in the jeep and wheel deep snow i want to go and get back reliably and safe each time.

Any one running a tripple-k k27? I have one from one of my old 745i engines. Its a 3.4l and was pretty torky and responsive unit. With the om617 being 3.0l would it be ok to figure it would be a ideal unit to replace the old turbo?
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:21 PM
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1. The stock compression 22.5:1 DON"T DECK IT AT ALL

2. From what I've read, around 14psi. I ran mine at 18psi and sprayed methanol for bursts of power. spend $1500-$2,000 on big elements and you will be able to make 500hp(until you blow it up).

3. timing advance. 26-28, too much and you will get detonation which will kill the engine right quick.

gapless rings, a ported head, STRONGER RODS, a custom MLS headgasket, custom studs. Make up an equal length exhaust, like the one KKD sells (Around 400 euro). Find a long runner NA intake manifold that fits (W115 or W123)

Be sure to install pre-turbo EGT sensors, along with an exhaust pressure sensor, and an boost gauge.

For good spooling you want a variable vane turbo, aka VNT turbo. Garret and holset use them, they can be found used pretty cheap.

superturbodiesel.com has some of the crazier info as well
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:27 PM
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I have 16 psi boost on my 616 using a kkk26 turbo. No waste gate, I blocked it off and removed it.The kkk26 is stock on 617's. Garrett's are also used. VNT would be nice since you are starting from scratch.

Just pump adjustments and making sure the waste gate is not opening to soon(assuming stock turbo)will get 25 more ft pounds.

More compression does not help a diesel like it does a gas engine, in fact if you really boost it, like 40 psi then slightly lowering compression is good. Seems from what I have found that 40 psi and you start bending rods. I don't think you are looking for crazy hp.

I would balance the crank while you have it apart. Also enlargeing the burn holes in the pc's gives a benefit of lower egt's, so you can push fueling a little more. Otherwise just a basic rebuild will give you a good engine to work with for the smaller gains you seem to be looking for. I am pushing my 616 way past the factory limits and it is doing just fine, and the 617 has stronger rods, oil cooled pistons and some other goodies that the 616 does not have, so you basically you have a strong engine that can take a lot, and this leaves room for more power later. A little more is never enough, it is sort like an addiction.....
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:58 PM
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so for boost not going for over 12 . want to be on the safe side.

parts to look for : N/a intake manifold i'll still use the factory turbo manifold if the two parts work together.



ok now here is a question . ware i wheel "mostly winter time in snow" in temps average 20F down to minus 5*f . what can i do to the engine to ensure she starts up after a cold nite of slumber . some trips we do are days to a week long treks out in no mans land.

oh and ware does one get gap less rings?

up date on parts. cancled order. pelican has way better pricing. any parts whores in here that mite be able to hook a young buck up with some discount action?

how i spend my winter. not my vid but im working on a hd camera afterh this build is done .

Moonrise Snow Wheeling No Soundtrack - YouTube
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BitterCreek View Post
Thats grossly exaggerated. Elements cost $320 for five and $300 for a local shop to install them.

Ha. What country do you live in? Better yet which planet? Sending the pump to Sweden or Finland to have the elements swap is right in that $1500-$2000 range. There are no known pump shops that are willing to do this kind of work.

But if you have evidence of a shop stateside that does this kind of work by all means elaborate....
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2013, 06:33 PM
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Hello forced.......
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2013, 06:47 PM
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Just get a 603 and mildly tune it and you will be leaps and bounds ahead than dumping all of your money into a 617
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2013, 07:54 PM
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617's are most comon ware i live and redily available. addapters to fit my jeep are all 617 based. I have familiarity with the 617 as well. Just not in the realm of bumping it up a little.
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  #11  
Old 01-19-2013, 09:17 PM
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Looks like i mite have a chance to buy a 79 300sd . Would it be worth it to buy a 79 non egr model? My core motor fell thru. But my plan remains the same. Other than ill have to get rid of the body after i pull the engine.
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2013, 03:21 AM
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With the modifications you are considering I really wouldn't be worrying about an EGR.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47dodge View Post
Hello forced.......
It WAS getting drafty around here wasnt it...
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:49 AM
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Get a 60x. Lots of money and work for an engine that is severely limited by air...
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:26 PM
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Well picked up a 1979 0m617 for 500 with Little to no blow by cold or hot. Fired up good and clean. Needs all seals tho. No biggie i figure
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