Ah great first time I sign on in months and this is exactly something that I could use :(

PLEASE PM me if you end up doing more. I have an extra core I can send you if you need one.

Today I finally got around to look at my car to change the overflow spring.

Well, guess what, apparently my car doesn't have one!

According to the ondemand diagram, number 15 is the overflow banjo.

1st picture shows my actual car, and there's a crudely drawn "6" where the bolt should be.

My car is a W210 1998 E300TD, with OM606.962 engine. It's the one that uses a partially electronic IP.

Does this mean my car doesn't have one?

Sorry guys, I spoke too soon. Turns out the car DOES have a overflow valve......except it's on the OTHER side of the pump. And
i was able to verify that it was there.

Guess I'm taking off the intake manifold to do it. Not too bad of a job, but it's certainly different from the older om606 or om605 engines.

Yeah, they are on the back side of the pump, lift pump is on one side, the overflow with the banjo fitting on the other. Pump needs 1 bar of internal pressure.

As it turns out, my overflow valve is the non-rebuildable one. :(

Anybody knows where I can source one?

Or does one of those Dodge Cummins overflow valve on ebay work?

I'll like to try this out on my car. Let me know when you have a batch going out

If your setup is otherwise stock, before you go installing a modified spring take a look at this:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/247039-fuel-injection-pump-starvation-good-lift-pump-6.html#post3547269

If your car is "souped up" then stock values may not apply, but if the car is stock and a modified (heavier or longer) spring improves the performance, it may just be compensating for other problems.

The above is not really accurate ...

First, not a good idea to "stretch" the spring. So, please don't try this and do so at your own risk. Secondly, the spring is a wear item and like any wear item after a zillion cycles, it becomes fatigued. The spring is designed for all applicable engine applications, not just "souped" engines, so that is likewise inaccurate. Third, and last, the "mod'd" aspect solely deals with the slightly enhanced pressure it creates. In no way does it "compensate" for other issues. Rather, your other engine's components should be working properly or correctly regardless, and this is just one piece of the puzzle.

I completely agree. In fact, putting in a "performance upgrade" spring - aren't you the one trying to sell these? - into a pressure relief valve is kind of like throwing some against the wall and hoping it sticks.

Thanks for confirming my point on that.

The OEM pressure relief valve is calibrated to the range of 1.0 - 1.5 bar. What's your so called "performance upgrade" valve calibrated to?

You obviously have zero clue what you are talking about. The spring was not randomly selected. Rather, it was designed and went through a lot of R&D before being marketed. Those expenses was in the $1,000's of dollars by folks who are true diesel experts. Then, it was road tested for a while. THEN, it was marketed. OVER 80 of these have been sold and all 2 thumbs up as compared to your "experiment" which you discussed.

So, I guess folks can evaluate proven prior results, expensive R&D, and true diesel experts versus your one time experiment.

I guess even trolls take a stroll on these threads.

Here's the body of a 6 year old thread, give or take, from WHunter ... I cut-and-pasted the entire post.

"Fuel injection pump starvation with good a good lift pump is becoming more common as the bypass valve spring gets weaker with age. A weak bypass spring allows too much lift pump pressure to flow back to the fuel tank = starving the injection pump for proper fuel volume. The solution is to install a new (or good used) bypass valve for your engine application.

MB# 0000747284
Diesel fuel return valve/banjo bolt, back of injection pump by engine block, at nylon return line going to fuel filter housing.
At this moment (March-12-2009), I have verified five new units remaining in north America.

Application list:

OM615. 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 919, 930, 932, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 963, 970

OM616. 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 930, 932 933, 934, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 960, 961, 963

OM617. 910, 912, 931, 932, 933, 950, 951, 952

OM621. 912, 913, 915, 916, 918, 919, 930, 931, 932

NOTE:
You should replace the banjo bolt/valve seal rings at this time.

Two of the following
Item Number: 007603012111
Main Category: MERCEDES BENZ
Description: SEAL RING, BANJO WASHER
Weight: 0.02"

As stated over and over in this thread, this is a wear item. The spring was slightly tweaked as an improvement over the original design.

The performance spring will not compensate a worn pre supply pump (valves/pump spring) and / or a worn hand primer pump (seals).

If one of those 2 are worn the performance can be even worse than before putting the performance spring inside.

Gruß
Volker

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Here (attached below) is the MB FSM related to 617.xxx IP fuel pressure test values. As posted in various threads in this forum, including the “whunter” thread you referenced [http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/247039-fuel-injection-pump-starvation-good-lift-pump.html]. For those interested, my own data and conclusions are in that thread; post #82


Now, greazzer, as for your claims, based on your so called R&D and the “$1,000's of dollars by folks who are true diesel experts.” I say: show me the evidence.

The evidence should include, for each of the vehicles involved in your extensive R&D (and also for each of your 80 satisfied customers):

a) the systematic IP pressure testing, per MB FSM, with the original, unmodified pressure relief spring, first …and

b) then, the same tests with your “not randomly selected,” but “designed” spring

c) a table summarizing the post-modification fuel pressure values that were either:

a) Within factory specs …or

b) Above factory specs

d) an objective report on the operating characteristics of the modified test vehicles

e) the before and after MPG table

f) a report on whether any of the 80 modified vehicles overheated their IP as a result of your spring

Don’t forget to include how your so-called R&D accounted for whether the cars involved had a clean strainer, fuel filters, correctly set valve timing and valve clearances, properly adjusted IP timing, a properly functioning lift pump and known good injectors with balanced pop values and good spray patterns; also the compression test results of the test motors.

Wait… What’s that? Oh you don’t have those values? It was just too much trouble to gather this information during your research worth “$1,000's of dollars?” I see. Well, then, your spring, my dear greazzer, is just snake oil.

Had you done real R&D (like that done by Bosch or MB or Monark) you would have some credibility. You have not, therefore you have none. Sorry.

Perhaps you want to insist that your own unique greazzer insights are superior to those of the silly german enginners, what with their fancy-shmancy engineering degrees and those ivory tower research labs, with those white labcoat wearing scientists, looking down their noses and issuing those condescending MB FSMs with actual fuel pressure values; …that all of their research is just an unproven theory compared to your faith based spring.

It looks like, absent real data based on real R&D, that would have to be your position. In that case, my dear greazzer, YOU are the troll.

Now, about those 160 thumbs (80 customers x 2 thumbs, assuming each had 2) that you have offered. Is that your evidence? Thumbs are not evidence. Even 160 thumbs are mostly wishful thinking. Before and After fuel pressure values are data that could be evidence. OK ? Make your argument based on real facts.

So, once more I say: show me the evidence of what your modified spring does to the fuel pressure.

If it just brings the pressure to within factory spec, we come back to my main point – that the stronger (or stretched or shimmed) spring just compensates for some other fuel delivery problem. One danger is that it obscures the problem making it that much more difficult to bring the car into proper spec, but that may be of little interest to some.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->

Dear M.P., I suggest you stick to domain name buying or motor bikes, or whatever. My last time entertaining you and you can troll along. The spring replaces a repair item and enhances what the German engineers created. Whether or not you like what I did is irrelevant and the work I did (and do) is established by the folks who already purchased one.

I will be interested in one at some point; not all of us are engineers, some of us are mechanics who experiment.

I will be commencing sales again in a few weeks. No need to be an engineer or a scientist. It's pretty simple operation to install, and it's pretty simple to understand that wear items do wear out and to install the replacement item which slightly enhances performance is a win-win scenario. I will post shortly a new thread for 2016 since this one got cluttered with a bunch of irrelevant posts.

I got some fresh stock in and I will be posting pictures shortly. So, if anyone is interested in NEW OFVs or just the spring, please PM me.

Here are some pictures of my remaining 2016 stock.

There are brand NEW, freshly machined OFVs with all new internals, and the mod'd spring. I have 13 of those left (one is not pictured). $41.50 shipped Priority Mail USPS with $50 worth of insurance CONUS. Turbo applications.

I have springs, I have 8 or 9 of those left. You will need a rebuildable OFV to use the spring. $35.00 shipped Priority Mail USPS with $50.00 worth of insurance CONUS. Turbo Applications.

There are brand NEW, freshly machined OFVs with all new internals, and the mod'd spring. I have 2 of those left. $41.50 shipped Priority Mail USPS with $50 worth of insurance CONUS. NON- Turbo applications.

Overseas is around $20, depending on your country -- however, overseas there is no insurance once it leaves CONUS.

PM if interested.

As with my injector service, my lift pump service, and soon HPN/SLS pumps and shocks, I stand behind my work 100%. If you really feel this did not "help" your car, simply return to me for a full refund to include your shipping back to me up to $5.75. So, you loose nothing. However, I will know if you took it apart (NEW units) or if you messed with the spring. I am now warning folks, if you messed with the NEW unit, e.g., took it apart or distorted the spring, I am not refunding your money. Period. So, leave it alone,
PM that you're returning it, and do whatever else your heart desires. So far 100% customer satisfaction and I can simply resell unmolested stock. Now, if you drive it around for months and then claim it was no help, same deal as taking it apart or messing with it ... You will know rather soon if it enhanced performance or not.

After reading "comments" from a few trolls and handling one curve ball, this is what I have to say.

1. If your car has other fueling problems, there's a chance this may exacerbate those symptoms. So look into those issues also.

2. The OFV is a wear item, and like any wear item, once it becomes degraded, the lack of PSI will impact your engine's performance.

3. Having sold 98 of the springs and two swaps, nothing but 2 thumbs up. Having sold a few of the new OFVs so far, same thing, nothing but 2 thumbs up.

4. These are shipped with insurance and tracking thru PayPal's protection plan as well as the insurance program with the USPS. If the USPS says it delivers your item, but you contact me claiming you never got it, there's nothing I can do about it. I had this happen, filed the claim, lost and then filed the appeal for the customer and lost again. I personally went to the post office and spent about 20 minutes talking to the guy in charge and he said tracked packages are really tracked. So, that's all I can do.

So, once these sell out, I will re-evaluate whether to get more stock in or not. Once these sell out, I should be at the 125 mark which is pretty decent track record. I apologize for the delay in getting this out.

As one of the very few people that continuously monitor my fuel pressure in real time, I can report that fuel pressure varies significantly. In order to get a stable reading I employ three strategies - first I have a snubber consisting of a tiny orifice in an epoxy plug in the fuel transducer capillary line, then I have a damper consisting of a piece of closed cell foam ahead of the sensor, and finally I do software averaging of a significant number of readings. When originally installed, the readings were "reasonable", but after doing the spring stretch procedure in the OFV valve the readings jumped - not quite double.

So, while I'm not using the Performance Overflow Valve, it's pretty obvious that this mod would have a profound effect on fuel pressures compared to a worn spring.

The pressures are so variable because of the lift pump being a positive displacement design - when the piston is on the "intake" stroke pressure quickly drops to near zero and when it is pumping it jumps quickly to the limit pressure of the OFV valve or possibly a bit more. What I've been wondering about recently is the notion of adding a fuel pulse damper (pressure damper or accumulator) to the system between the pump and the injector pump. If it's true that the extra pressure of the Performance Overflow Valve increases performance by increasing the fill rate of the elements, it would seem reasonable to assume that a constant design pressure would serve the same purpose and possibly reduce the stress on the lift pump.

As I'm writing this, I'm wondering whether it's possible that a check valve in my lift pump might be leaking producing the low pressures I'm seeing i.e. allowing the fuel to bleed back through the pump rather than being maintained on the pressure side.

Considering the overwhelming response from folks in this very thread, skepticism seems unwarranted. But to the point, I believe he called you a troll because of your approach, not skepticism. A skeptic wouldn't claim he was charging too much, a tropical would. A skeptic Would ask for empirical evidence, which you haven't...

I think Mach 4 needs to buy one and report his findings... As for me, I have no doubt it works. I will buy one eventually.

I'm entirely happy with the way my stock "refurbished" overflow valve is now working so I won't be buying the performance one, however if greazzer wants to loan me one for a week or so, I'd be happy to install it and provide video documentation on the results compared to stock springs.

However, that being said, as I referenced in my last post, I should probably rebuild my lift pump to ensure that that part of the fuel system is up to spec so the results are valid.

OFV
 

I just received my second performance OFV, I wanted a spare.

I installed the first one about a year ago and have been very happy
with the performance improvements.

Prior to installing the performance OFV I had replaced the vehicles
original OFV with a new ME/BE OFV. It is a maintenance item.

There was a noticeable improvement in drivability as
compared to the old one.

The car (85 SD) no longer felt like it was
running out of fuel at higher RPM's.

However, the performance OFV is a substantial improvement over stock.
Acceleration and drivability are greatly improved.
The car no longer behaves like an old diesel.

Highly recommended.

Down to 10 of the NEW bodies, and 8 springs for TURBO

Down to the very last NEW OFV for NA applications.

I asked about this on the superturbodiesel forum, it seems that unless you are running much larger elements and higher RPMs it doesn't seem to matter, I was thinking of just adding in an FPR on the return line instead as it would be easier to install and I could have the ability to adjust the pressure without it being a fixed pressure.

Changing overflow valve to adjustable FPR?

No, not accurate information again.

This benefits stock IPs / stock injectors as noted by almost 100 folks who have installed this.

Will this fit a w123 "M" IP as opposed to a stock USA "MW" IP?

What would the difference be between fitting the fixed pressure overflow valve vs an adjustable FPR though?

Yes, it will fit.

Gruß
Volker

lol ... too fast for me ... yes, I had one in mine.

You can´t measure the improvement on a bench. The pressure wave behavior is different on the engine.
I don´t think a standard fuel pressure regulator is easier to install as you have to mess around with several hoses, hose clamps, adaptors, mount the regulator somewhere,...

To change the valve you just need a 17mm open-end spanner, that´s it.

Keep in mind that all the cheap fuel pressure regulators from eBay and so on are not rated for Diesel fuel.


Gruß
Volker

I will look into the different options, on my W210 the inlet and return lines are very easy to get to as they are attached on the right strut tower, getting to the pump however requires quite a lot of work as if I can't get to it from under the car the whole inlet manifold and pipework has to come off.

UPDATE:

ALL NA (NON-TURBO) new OFVs are now SOLD ! Thanks !!

Less than 10 of the Turbo (NEW OFV) remain, and 7 springs left (turbo as well).

Thanks again !

Update:

There could be variations in OM606 pumps, so until this is ascertained, no sales for OM606engines. Will update shortly.

Just an FYI from my experience...........

I'd like to add that the ID of the supply line to the lift pump is too small and has a few restrictions built into it also reducing i/p internal pressure..

For those of you running more than stock HP, increasing the supply hose ID to at least 1/2 will ensure the lift pump is not being subject to cavitation damage which will eventually lead to pump putting out less pressure and volume.

Those of you with the 123 wagons have more restrictions in fuel supply flow than the 123 sedan.

Using a 9psi electric boost pump near the tank helps starting and idle quality.....especially using WVO.

Long cranking times to start is often the supply volume and pressure to the i/p.

I found that on my 1985 123 sedan, this fuel line size limited the power at 3500 rpm and up quiet a lot. Adding a boost pump allowed the engine to reach 4900 rpm at WOT in any gear. Whereas before, power fell off at 4000 rpm, and in 2nd and 3rd and top gear rpm's never got over 3900 rpm.

FYI...The head was ported to the limit and Total Seal second rings to new pistons and sleeves. I/P was optimized with new elements . I just wish I had known about Myna back then.


.

I agree,I had a 12 psi electric pump also,It seems my 617 charged up mountains,leaving alot of new cars in the dust.However they have got expensive,I always bought NAPA solenoids pumps.

How did the pump affect mileage?

I thought it helped it on wvo,because the lift pump which is run by the motor,didn't have to work hard.

there is some on ebay for $59. 12 volt,10 to 14 psi diesel pump

Got my injectors done by greazzer and scooped up one of his OFVs. Just installed the OFV and it made a noticeable difference...Highly recommended for my (turbo) application. I'll get the injectors installed sometime soon but wanted to see how the OFV did for the butt dyno first.

Currently, down to 5 new OFVs for turbo applications. All NA's sold out. After that, I just have the springs ...

Sending you a PM

Responded ...

PM sent.

Responded to. Thanks.

The idle smoothed out quicker after the first start of the day. Mind you, it's 65 degrees here and I'm comparing it to the last 10 or so days when the temp was lower. It also seemed to idle a little better.

Since I never push hard on the accelerator it's a little difficult to say how much the acceleration has improved. It runs great and seems to have quite a bit more pickup with this new valve. I just can't quantify it with objectivity. Me likie!

I'm not planning a trip to the post office until later in the week so you probably won't get the old bolt assembly until mid next week. Don't worry about the refund just take it off the price of popping those injectors when I get the new nozzles.

Thanks for the follow-up !

Late Arrival Here
 

I've been reading this thread with interest .

Where does anyone tap in to test the pressure ? .

The hose from this banjo bolt goes up to the filter head and attached via another banjo bolt , I was thinking of drilling and tapping a spare one for a pressure gauge to see what's what before I spring for this modification .

Comments please ? .

Pictures of the pressure gauge tapped in would be nice too .

TIA ,

I haven't seen how people do it on these cars, but on a CIS gas system you switch one of the banjo bolts for one of these:

M10 x 1 0 Stainless Steel 20mm Banjo Bolt with 1 8" NPT Brake Light Switch Port | eBay

If there's an M10 banjo, that would work (haven't checked yet). Then you simply screw a 1/8" NPT pressure gauge onto it, or you could use an electrical sending unit to go to a gauge in the cabin.

-Rog

Thank you ~

That's what I plan to do with a spare original brass banjo bolt , my Son's a Rice Racer and loaned me his old tiny fuel pressure gauge to screw into the drilled & tapped banjo bolt .

I wanted to ask before I made yet another foolish mistake :rolleyes: .

Ought to work fine. I'm assuming that the gage will be visible to the driver? The engine needs to be under load to get meaningful readings so you want to be able to see it while driving (unless you're running on a dyno so you can read it with the hood up). I've seen commercially-made banjo bolts with a tap in the end (seems like they were 1/8" NPT) for just this purpose.

Dan