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-   -   How to get reliable 300 HP in OM606...and where to get it? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-performance-tuning/372165-how-get-reliable-300-hp-om606-where-get.html)

Deplore 09-28-2015 01:46 AM

How to get reliable 300 HP in OM606...and where to get it?
 
I have a '98 W210 E300TD that I've been driving the past few months. Great car. But it's lacking when compared to my other W210 E320.

I've done my research and apparently 300HP is doable. My question is...where do I source the parts from? I know that I need to change 3 things:

--IP modification
--bigger turbo
--ECU tune

Thing is, I'm in California. I DD my car, so I need her to pass smog...so I can't exactly convert to a mechanical IP.

Now, I understand that dieselmaken in sweden does the 7.5mm elements...which should be sufficient. The bigger turbo...I don't know what to get. Ideally, I'd like it to be bolt on, but not strictly necessary. Does anyone have any suggestions?

ECU tune... this is the biggie. I don't know who does tuning for W210. I see them for the CDI and later blutec cars, but not this one. Who does them?

I understand that adding more power means that the transmission might not cope with it. In that case, what 722.6 transmission from what car will bolt on? W220 S500? W220/W215 S600?

Thanks for any suggestions.

KarTek 10-09-2015 09:20 AM

Hi,

Here's what I've done to my car and it may answer some of your questions:

7.5mm pump elements, sourced from Germany, custom made by a member here "Tomnik".

I installed the elements myself and calibrated the pump using a machine I designed and built. It runs pretty well with everything else stock right now but I'm making improvements to the calibration machine to prefect the adjustments and get it running even smoother.

The plan is to go for 400HP and install a different exhaust and induction system. In my opinion, a "tune" is not necessary if you have larger pump elements. You need to modify the rack feedback circuit to fool the ECU into pushing more fuel.

This car has a semi-mechanical pump. The front side is virtually identical to the full mechanical unit but it has a wire coil controlled by PCM from the ECU to drive fuel output. My car runs clean (a little smoke at full throttle, idle is clean as stock) and throws no codes.

moon161 10-09-2015 02:22 PM

Kartek, do tell about your calibration set, I am most curious.

KarTek 10-09-2015 03:11 PM

It's fairly straightforward. It's a rig that mounts and spins the pump at idle RPM, maybe ~330 for 1000 strokes, moves the rack 6.5mm and measures the output of the elements.

A second component of the machine is a sensor that measures peak injection output and fires a timing light at a degree wheel attached to the spinning shaft. This lets you measure the relative injection timing between the elements and then shim the lifters to get them to match.

The machine is designed so you can mount the pump and do all the adjustments without un-mounting it until you're finished.

Deplore 10-11-2015 06:36 AM

Well, I wanted a tune for more than just fuel dumping.... EGR disable, rev limiter increase, better throttle response, to name a few. That's why I was wondering who does tuning for this antiqued platform.

According to my research, SpeedTuning and RocketChip do W210 tuning. That's what I was wondering, if these people could do what I wanted.

I know the real limiting factor in thos OM606 engine is the small turbo and the 6mm elements... but those I can take care in time. It's the tune that has me worried.

@KarTek: how does the car drive? What about the shifting? Does the transmission shift earlier, or is the shift point the same, except it has more power at each gear?

KarTek 10-11-2015 04:12 PM

My EGR and MAF are defeated with 50 cent worth of electronic components. The bigger elements give a much snappier throttle response without being too "touchy". My engine revs out to 5000 RPM, not sure how much more you want.

I believe some of the guys have used the tuners you mention and they have been satisfied with the results. You can search for those names and find a lot of good info.

My car drives great! The transmission shifts early as expected because you are at a lower throttle position to deliver the same amount of performance as stock. The only thing I wish is that it would downshift a little earlier. It seems to lug a little but it's not too annoying.

Once I have all the hardware installed, I'll make a punch list of items I want tweaked and then go looking for a tuner to get it all done at once.

Deplore 10-12-2015 01:14 AM

I wanted the rpm redline increased to 6500, but that's not strictly necessary. As I understand it, the engine (and the IP) is good up to 7000-8000 rpm stock, unopened.

I wanted to figure out how this car handles boost while changing gears, if it cuts boost while shifting, that would be great. If not, then I'll need to figure something out to save the transmission.



What turbo do you plan on setting up? I plan on using a adapted HX35 turbo to fit the stock manifold.

Like you, I plan on doing everything at once and then take it to a tuner to finalize it.

KarTek 10-12-2015 07:20 AM

RPM wise, I believe 6000 may be possible with stock rods but not any higher because of the heavy slugs. They do make H beam rods for this engine that let you run to about 7000 IIRC.

I think the ECU does cut boost for a split second while shifting because you can feel it fall on it's face a little. I know I've hooked vacuum straight to the waste gate for testing and acceleration is much smoother without the dip when shifting.

Induction wise, when it's finished, I will have a HX40 turbo compounded into an Eaton M90 supercharger. My goal is 400HP so his will cover boost needs from idle to full throttle.

For your project, you may want to consider the HY35 with it's smaller turbine housing to get back some spool up performance. The HY supported 300HP on the stock Cummins so I think it would work great in this case.

shertex 10-12-2015 04:07 PM

RocketChip is the place to go. Reasonably priced, stellar reputation. Speedtuning...not so much.

Deplore 10-14-2015 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek (Post 3528022)
RPM wise, I believe 6000 may be possible with stock rods but not any higher because of the heavy slugs. They do make H beam rods for this engine that let you run to about 7000 IIRC.

I think the ECU does cut boost for a split second while shifting because you can feel it fall on it's face a little. I know I've hooked vacuum straight to the waste gate for testing and acceleration is much smoother without the dip when shifting.

Induction wise, when it's finished, I will have a HX40 turbo compounded into an Eaton M90 supercharger. My goal is 400HP so his will cover boost needs from idle to full throttle.

For your project, you may want to consider the HY35 with it's smaller turbine housing to get back some spool up performance. The HY supported 300HP on the stock Cummins so I think it would work great in this case.

Doh, guess the rev limiter increase is out of question.

And that's a nice setup you're planning....if you ever get around to do it, I want pics!

And the HY35 turbo looks decent, actually. I've been reading a lot of HY35 vs HX35 arguments, and it seems that each have their pro's and cons.

HY35 pro

spools quickly and comes into effect at lower rpm
nearly almost same size as HX35

cons

high EGT at top rpm
flows less than HX35 at top rpm
"only" good for 200-hp ish (this was from the dudes in the 4bt trucks, not sure how that is applicable)

HX35 pro

almost the same size as hy35
flows significantly better than hy35
more efficient, less EGT when setup correctly
supports up to 450 hp

con

large, so spools late (2000+ rpm late, supposedly)


Despite the many cons that the HY35 has, I'm looking at it....mainly because it spools quickly. I need something like that -- this car is going to be a daily driver, mostly in the city, meaning no outrageous RPM climbing or anything. The car probably will never go past 2500 RPM -- so I want the power available then.

HX35, while looking tempting, probably won't ever see much use outside a few times a month, since with my projected use, it'll probably spend most of its time idling.

Now I get why they say choosing the right turbo is as much as an art as it is a science. Ugggggh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex (Post 3528191)
RocketChip is the place to go. Reasonably priced, stellar reputation. Speedtuning...not so much.

Hmm, i'll have to give him a look. It's a shame, I'm located in CA and he's nowhere nearby.

KarTek 10-14-2015 06:59 PM

4BT is at a disadvantage because of it's RPM limit. It can't move nearly as much air as the 606 the the turbo pressure ratio has to be higher and it probably starts to exceed the turbo's stall line.

I'll run the 300 HP scenario through my turbo calculator and see how the HX vs the HY compares.

Here are the numbers for your application:

HP Peak RPM - 4750
Pressure ratio - 3.2
CFM - 673.76
Cubic meters/sec - .32
#/min - 41.8

Holset sometimes uses a funky "mass flow parameter" for the base line. I can't remember off the top of my head but one of the flow numbers I listed should be able to be translated.

Deplore 02-21-2016 07:09 PM

So, I've been sleuthing about on ebay, and I noticed that HY35 turbos (new) are starting to drop in price.

I'm wondering if HY35 can be installed in the car with the factory vaccum actuated wastegate? It does look like it could be installed... or I could unclip that little hose and connect it to the vaccum actuator in my car.

The flanges, I'll figure something out. Maybe take it to a machining shop.

Furthermore, do I need do anything if the turbo can be installed? I just want to test it and see if it works. Or should I get tune + turbo and then element upgrade at another time?

Mainly looking for low end boost, I would love to have gobs of torque at low rpm.

Cloudsurfer 06-23-2016 01:22 PM

Whatever you do, stay FAR, FAR, FAR, VERRRRRRYYYYYYY FAR away fro Speedtuning.

I am currently on a RocketChip tune (all else stock) after a huge fiasco with Speedtuning and have zero desire to touch my ECU again.


As to the rest, I am also interested in bigger elements and a bigger turbo/ exhaust/ induction system, but want the car to remain daily drivable.

diesellover 92 10-22-2018 09:58 PM

any update on this, about to go down the path of a stock turbo and 7.5mm elements

g-wizz 10-26-2018 05:36 PM

your going to want an exhaust manifold and larger turbo minimum. you can maybe make that power with the stock stuff but it will cost you a bunch of heat and a bunch of drive pressure in doing so.

also i wouldn't mess with the rpms till you do valve springs, plus your not really trying to make that much power. better safe than sorry. also a safe bet what is said on the internet about these motors is not rule of thumb.. the ones that make real power reliable are defiantly messed with and have been opened up.. dont be the guy to find out the hard way.


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