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  #1  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:13 PM
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Help Tuning a 603 IP

Cutting straight to the chase:

I have a 3.5L IP installed on a 3.0L OM603 in an '86 300SDL. Boost is building to 13PSI and the car is running well.

However - I want to raise the RPM limit (currently ~4600 RPM) to match the original 3.0L limit of 5150RPM and I want to reduce fuelling a bit to reduce the "coal rolling" when lead-footing it. I'm sure there are those here that would kill for a coal-roller, but I'm not one of them.

What do I need to do to make this happen? There are several adjustments in the IP and I would prefer not to screw anything up. From poking around on this forum at the STD forum, I suspect that I can raise the RPM limit by turning the 10mm Allen bolt, but what about the mixture? The ALDA is still factory-sealed, so I'd prefer to leave it that way if possible, unless adjusting that is part of tuning the fuelling.
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:17 PM
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The ALDA controls fuel based upon boost. Decrease the alda, you'll have less smoke because of less fuel with boost. Pretty sure the adjustment to decrease fuel is CCW, and CW to increase. I appreciate the little bit of smoke I get at 4000rpm on my w210s if I floor it. It lets people know it ain't some slow ol' stinky diesel.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:56 PM
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This is more like a chipped Cummins rolling coal than the hint of smoke you're talking about. I don't mind a bit of smoke when really romping on it, but this smoke starts up ~1500 RPM and peaks around 2500 before trailing off. Doesn't matter if the turbo is spooled or not (turbo is spooling fine and reaching 13PSI). Backing off the pedal and then increasing throttle like climbing a hill in traffic will blanket the car behind with black smoke, especially until the turbo spools enough to compensate. Normal running doesn't do it nearly as bad. You can get a faint fog behind the car when romping from a stop sign.

Will the ALDA adjustment tune the entire fuel band? Or just the "on-boost" fuel band? Additionally, is leaning out the ALDA going to make the off-boost 500-2000 RPM range even more of a slug?

The smoke wasn't as bad with the old Bosch India injector nozzles, but the engine also didn't run anywhere as well or with as much power as with the new Monark nozzles that are installed now. I'd assume leaning up the fueling will have a direct correlation to fuel economy numbers as well. I currently get 26-27mpg in city traffic, but only 23-24mpg on the highway in 75mph interstate driving. I'd have expected that second number to be higher than it is, but running rich would certainly explain it.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
This is more like a chipped Cummins rolling coal than the hint of smoke you're talking about. I don't mind a bit of smoke when really romping on it, but this smoke starts up ~1500 RPM and peaks around 2500 before trailing off. Doesn't matter if the turbo is spooled or not (turbo is spooling fine and reaching 13PSI). Backing off the pedal and then increasing throttle like climbing a hill in traffic will blanket the car behind with black smoke, especially until the turbo spools enough to compensate. Normal running doesn't do it nearly as bad. You can get a faint fog behind the car when romping from a stop sign.

Will the ALDA adjustment tune the entire fuel band? Or just the "on-boost" fuel band? Additionally, is leaning out the ALDA going to make the off-boost 500-2000 RPM range even more of a slug?

The smoke wasn't as bad with the old Bosch India injector nozzles, but the engine also didn't run anywhere as well or with as much power as with the new Monark nozzles that are installed now. I'd assume leaning up the fueling will have a direct correlation to fuel economy numbers as well. I currently get 26-27mpg in city traffic, but only 23-24mpg on the highway in 75mph interstate driving. I'd have expected that second number to be higher than it is, but running rich would certainly explain it.
It sounds like your injectors aren't tuned properly. Tuning the ALDA won't cut overall fuel, just on-boost fuel.

Either that, or your timing is advanced a few degrees too much. Have you checked timing?
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:28 PM
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Ok, so the ALDA adjustment was the problem. I used the spare ALDA I kept from the original IP. Pulled the cap off and adjusted it. Wound up going CW 2.5 turns. No more smoke, even pedal on the floor from a stop. No difference in power either, if anything the acceleration is a bit brisker (which doesn't make any sense to me!). Filled the tank with fuel and it will be interesting to see if there's a difference in economy (I'd expect there will be). THANK YOU JAKE for the suggestion to tune the ALDA.
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:08 PM
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Your fuel economy should definitely go up. I'd bet you'll see 30mpg highway 25mpg city.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:09 PM
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Also, adjusting the governor will increase the rpm limit. I have not done this myself, so I'm not sure of the procedure. But know how it is accomplished.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:21 PM
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I got to roughly half a tank on the fuel gauge and decided to fill up to check economy numbers. 248 miles on the fuel I used, took 10.25 gallons to refill. Puts me just a hair over 24mpg. ~180 miles were highway (80mph, 4 adults, luggage, etc), the rest were city driving. All with A/C blowing. Not bad, certainly a BIG improvement over the dismal 18.2mpg I averaged on the last tank before adjusting the ALDA. Smoke has all but stopped except for WOT, and that's fine with me.

Still haven't adjusted the governor limit. Looking around on the web, it looks like I need to turn the 10mm allen bolt in the IP CW a couple turns to get the RPM limit raised to where I want/need it. Will mess with that in cooler weather.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:43 PM
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Why is the rpm limit at 4600? Did you adjust it to that or what?

Just wondering.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyl604 View Post
Why is the rpm limit at 4600? Did you adjust it to that or what?

Just wondering.
The 3.5L engines were adjusted differently, 4600 RPM was their max RPM. The 3.0L version was 5150 RPM. The biggest issue isn't power, it's matching the RPM limit to the transmission shift points. Stock WOT shifts on the SDL were ~4600 RPM, so to compensate, I have the bowden cable fairly slack to get the WOT shifts down around 4200 RPM. Gets annoying in traffic since it shifts up into 4th really quickly. The transmission isn't easily tuned without adjusting the internal governor, not something I'm keen on doing.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:41 PM
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Very interesting.

I have no idea how people become mechanics to work on the new cars. They must be of the genius category.

My '81 300SD is all I can handle. I do not even attempt to work on the Lexus.
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
Ok, so the ALDA adjustment was the problem. I used the spare ALDA I kept from the original IP. Pulled the cap off and adjusted it. Wound up going CW 2.5 turns. No more smoke, even pedal on the floor from a stop. No difference in power either, if anything the acceleration is a bit brisker (which doesn't make any sense to me!).
If there is too much fuel for the air, it has a cooling affect, which reduces the heat of compression, which reduces efficiency, which means even less fuel is burned (kind of a down-ward spiral) so you get even more smoke and overall less power.

I need to do both of the same adjustments (ALDA and max RPM on the governor) on my '87 wagon with 3.5 liter pump.
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2017, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxbumpo View Post
If there is too much fuel for the air, it has a cooling affect, which reduces the heat of compression, which reduces efficiency, which means even less fuel is burned (kind of a down-ward spiral) so you get even more smoke and overall less power.

I need to do both of the same adjustments (ALDA and max RPM on the governor) on my '87 wagon with 3.5 liter pump.
That actually does make sense. The reduction in coal-rolling is very marked after adjusting the ALDA. It will still let out a bit of smoke when really romping on it from a stop. I'm considering an extra 1/2 turn to lean it out a bit more still. It does definitely run a lot better now that it's been leaned out. Much quicker off the line and a much smoother transition into the boost band once the turbo spools. Before the adjustment, off-turbo was really a dog, then it would suddenly lurch into having some power once the turbo spooled. Going up a hill in slow traffic was pretty embarrassing.
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:09 PM
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Theoretically the rod to stroke ratios of the 3.5's weren't as good and weren't able to take the rpm's that a 603/602 could, so they set the govenor lower.
What is the consensus on the safe rev limit for a turbo 602/603?
Mine I can take to 5k but I will typically shift at 4500rpm due to the power falling off...
Would 5500rpm be to much, I'm sure it's well out of its volumetric efficiency, but the 602 almost revs like a gasser, so more revs can be useful when burning out or generally ripping
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:24 AM
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there is a capsule inside the IP that controls the fuel delivery to the engine fuel curve the IP was intended to work on. Not sure if that was clear but its a different part for the 3l and the 3.5l engines.
I kept the IP off my 350SD that went to MB heaven and a friend who works on Bosch pumps changed the capsule in it for my 603. It works pefectly with no smoke and good fuel economy. At the same time he set the governor up to match my 3l.
If you have a shop that works on Bosch IP's I may be able to find the part, ie "capsule" for you or a part# at least if you wanted to do it right.
DDH
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