Help me calculate HP!!! DYNO must have been wrong (modded-out 240d)
 

Hey guys new to this forum but def not new to forums (no newb here) and kinda new to Benz's but not new to diesel, again no newb here.

I just picked up a 1980 240d about 2 months ago, she has only 415k on her but to a MILLION MILE ENGINE!!! that should be nothing. This is my third soon to be drifting car.

My first was a 1993 civic (heavily modded, cut springs, turbo, eBay intercooler, accord brake system all around, straight pipe to custom whistle tip, ya know... The works.) she had to be pushing 350 400 horses.

My second was a Mazda Miata drop top that pullllled!!! Basically the same mods as my civic but no turbo. (Civic threw a rod so I frankesteined all my upgrades into my drop top) something was wrong with the turbo so I just left that out. What I did was spliced the IC piping straight into the intake, so i was at least getting ice cold air in there. In theory that should be pretty close to the same effect as a turbo. (This was the BEST IC on eBay btw)


Ok but anyways now that u guys know that I know my way around an engine let's get to my current issue. I took my 240 to my local DYNO and ran it multiple times and she kept hitting at only 55 wHP!!! Hahaha this cannot be correct I told the guy and he just wanted to argue, I wanted a refund but he wouldn't have it so I just got outta there.

And so ill bring this to u guys, the guru's!!! I figure I'm somewhere around 230-240 wHP by the amount of mods I've thrown at this car in the past few months, lemme know what guys clock me in at.

--- So I've spliced in a twin cold air intake set up. It's just a Y pipe connected to two intakes, I ripped off the POS stock dishpan intake and thrown this in place of that. (17 HP per intake so 34hp)

--- exhaust manifold and exhaust piping DELETE. I've completly removed it straight off the engine so there is NO manifold at all. This obviously allows less air restriction and MORE air the be pulled thru the engine, especially since this paired with my twin cold air intake!!! (I'd say this must add another 30-40 HP, but also atleast double the input of cold air at the Twintake (hence my handle) so that bumps it to 68 HP)

So this simple mod alone Adds a conservative 100hp so with just that I'm at 165 wHP, DYNO must have been wrong right guys!!! Haha ya obviously, but there is MORE!

--- synthetic oil complete swap from conventional, when these old diesel are ran with heavy duty conventional diesel oil it really bogs them down (can someone say Black death!! Haha) so switching to a thin synthetic allows the pistons and and crank And etc to move and spin faster. ( So another 15 - 20 HP here)

--- removed extra weight, interior is gutted (500 lbs lighter) now they don't make carbon fiber hoods trunks door etc for these cars, for reasons unknown. So basically I have left the main frames of these body parts and cut out as much of this heavy metal as possible with my disk grinder (750 lbs) so 1250 pounds lighter give or take (so that should add another 30-40 HP)

--- and lastly ivr fitted my civic's (rip) spoiler/wing onto the 240. I just don't think a DYNO can take this into account (along with the lightness of the car) because it's not actually moving on the DYNO. I mean duh guys it's physics, so what the wing does is hold the whole car onto the ground tighter allowing here to really get a good grip on the track, hence MORE WHEEL HORSEPOWER!!! and just straight pull (so again I thibk this should add another 20 - 30 horses)


So with all these simple DIY mods my ride is at a VERY CONSERVATIVE ~235 horse power to the wheels.

So if anyone else wants a FAST w123 this is what u need to do. I haven't been able to get her out on the road yet because my license is suspended until next month. That's why I've had the time to add all these updates to the car. She really idles Strong rigjt now tho and she sounded soooo fast on that DYNO.


<B>everyone please help!!! What do do u think I'm at! I know we can l agree the DYNO was broken but are my number correct!?</b>

I'll do a DIY thread next weekend on how to cut springs on these cars to lower then and make them more aerodynamic which adds 30 HP.


So

Very good. You are 100% correct. :)

-Rog

I cannot imagine a 240D, no matter what you do to it shy of dropping an srt8 into it, ever being close to HP you figure yours has. 55HP sounds about right for nearing a half million miles, and I’m pretty sure a lot of the mods you described just don’t work that way on a diesel or mathematically (like dropping weight doesn’t add HP) - I could be wrong but this will be an interesting thread to follow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The DYNO is correct
 

Twintake,

Let me start out by saying welcome to the forum.

I have sad news, but the dyno was spot on a 55whp. Given that the engine was only rated at 68HP by the factory, and it has a lot of miles on it, I would say that 55whp is pretty good.

At first I though that your post was a spoof to be honest, but I think you are really serious about what you posted, and if that is so, my first words of advice are, if you are looking to make easy horsepower get another Civic, any MB will require a lot of money to make even 30% more power, and the 240D engine will require even more $$ to do even that.

I own and have modded a 240D engine, I have turned up the pump, modded the prechambers, advanced the injection timing, changed the valve timing, made a resonate chamber intake manifold, had a M90 supercharger on it but then switched to a VNT turbo with an ATW inter-cooler. It is currently in a 201 chassis. It had a bad valve and the head gasket finally went so it is waiting for a chance for a rebuild with a 10mm pump, bigger turbo, and oil cooled pistons.

I also have a 300D which as a 3 liter turbocharged engine, and by looking at it one would think it is the same as the 240D but with an extra cylinder, but there are differences. The factory rated that engine at 126 (ish) and I have seen dyno results in the 140whp to 150whp range after work was done to the pump.

I have seen an article in a magazine that featured a 230 HP (if I recall right) 240D but it had a lot of work done, most of all a big injection pump.

IMOP, given what you want to do, I can say confidently that you backed the wrong horse lol.. The W123 chassis is known to be an excellent drift chassis, but it is heavy and underpowered. It is only after a lot of work and money will they perform as seen on youtube.

I am not sure what other diesels you have worked on to give you the impression that what each thing you have done will result in XX additional power, but they are definitely not realistic as the dyno has proven. That is OK, as long as you are open to learn, there is a lot of knowledge here.

First off, welcome to the forum.

I think I should move your thread to the performance section of the forum...

Ok.

A diesel just like any internal combustion motor, needs air, AND fuel to make more hp.

You HAVE improved the intake and exhaust...

Well rereading it... it looks like you... removed the intake and exhaust...

Um... do you have pictures?

But you have done nothing to the fuel system.

Any air increase needs to be matched with commensurate fuel...

The mb injection pump can only flow what it is designed to flow.

Contact myna... spend 2K on a high flow pump, and you could get 180Hp or so... if you install a turbo with an intercooler...

Until that very worn out 450K motor fails...

Synthetic oil will not net you any hp...

Lighter chassis will not net you any hp...

A spoiler or wing will not net you any hp...

A 65HP. Stock new motor with 450K on it will need SIGNIFICANT repair to handle any hp improvements.

Bearings, oil pump, timing, and injection pump...

Good luck.

Welcome to the Forum!

I'm with VSTech... you'll get more help over at the Performance section.

FWIW, the "mods" you've done don't add any hp. They might free up restrictions here and there, but at the wheels I doubt you'd see more than a couple.

If you want to know the true up your car produces...

Find a level area of road and time how long it takes to hit 60...

22 seconds is stock...

Post your time.

Clearly you can't prank this lot. Serious as a heart attack, 24/7. :cool:

-Rog

A custom CAI that gives a rwhp increase of 34hp?

Uh... Yeah...

Not the only thing.

Am I the only one with suspicions of unhinged trolling in the back of my mind? I mean, seriously, did anyone read the whole post?

:stuart:

This guy is all over the place. I'm also thinking this is the same person that wants to build a Ford Ranger + 617 using as many CAT tractor parts as possible.

Also note the last line says " So " , I guessing this was typed up on a their computer then dumped to the forum and it hit the post length limit.

Guess someone got a new computer for Christmas.. . ..

Surely this is a troll...

No you were not the only one. I thought it laughable that each mod would get an increase of HP, some more than it has in stock form!!!!!

I don't think there is a post limit...
I just copied all text and added it to the end of his post doubling the post count...

It stuck...

As laughable as it is... many actually believe it to be the case...

Remember the cyclone inserts to the air filter... 25 HP increase from that...

I think not.

I don't assume troll... I hope to properly inform.

Anyone expressing desire to make a 240D into a "drift car" is either trolling or smoking some seriously magic mushrooms...

Rev. Twintake has delivered a very well received sermon.

The choir is now doing all the preaching......to itself!

Ok first of all I'm not a troll and I'm not some other guy.

Second of all I dunno where and what u guys got all your info from because mine is strictly from track time and experience plus 2 years as lead lube tech at jiffy lube.


Soooo yaaa back on topic please!!

How the hell can I pressurize this cryptic fuel system to get more fuel pushing thru her?? Since everyone thinks more fuel is a necessity .....

I was just thinking of making a blend with diesel #2 and and an high octane ethonal free gasoline, like RC car gas (95 octane) so like 75% diesel and 25% hi octane gas. That should be able to combust at a higher rate plus really rip some power outta this 616.

Thanks to everyone who stays on topic plz!!

Since you seem to be an expert at getting 235HP out of an OM616 with simple Auto-Zone mods, get us a certified copy of your dyno chart for this car and we'll take you seriously. Until then, expect lots of sarcasm and for few if any of the members of this forum to take you seriously.

Assuming you can get an intercooler setup, a turbo pushing a good 15PSI or so, and turn up the fuelling in the injection pump, you'll be somewhere around the 125HP that a stock OM617 turbo makes but with far less reliability.

There's simple physics involved and cutting springs and deleting bodywork isn't going to change anything about the horsepower your engine makes.

Adding cold air intakes is doing nothing either. Your factory intake system already had a cold-air intake coming in behind the passenger side headlight. If you make 1HP more from your frankenstein system, you're doing pretty good.

Running gasoline in your fuel mix is asking for holes blown in pistons, burnt valves, blown head gaskets, or melted injectors.

You're dealing with a mechanical engine and fuel system here. It was designed for economy and reliability, not performance. If you want speed, you need to be looking at swapping in a smallblock V8 or some other custom mod. Trying to get serious power out of an OM616 is like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Be very careful with your tone grass hopper. If it is truly knowledge that you seek, from people who have done it and know what works and what does not, then I would strongly recommend a softer tone when responding to members who have identified some inaccuracies in your statements.

I will pick two for example...



This is a good one because you can easily weigh each piece you took off the car so there is no "theory" to it, just lbs.

You stated that you removed 1250 lbs from a 3000+lb vehicle making it now way around 1750 lbs. That means you have removed just over 40% of the vehicles weight, ...

Lets say that that you really did remove 1250 lbs from the car... "750 lbs" of which was metal that you cut off with a "disk grinder"... and because of that, I would be worried about the structural integrity of the vehicle.

Many of us have "striped" vehicles and the reality is if you can get 400 lbs out of it and it is still road worthy, that is pretty good. And that includes the interior...


The problem with this statement is that the additional downforce that a proper wing can generate increases the parasitic drag, and it is a tricky balance between downforce and traction needs. Race teams run as little wing as they can get away with.

I will stop at that...

The ability to ask for help is a very valuable thing, listening and accepting answers that you do not want to hear is even more valuable. I hear a lot of "telling us how it is"... it is tuff getting people to contribute to the education that you asked us for when you respond like that. It is ok to be wrong or mistaken, it is tragic to insist on remaining that way.

Perhaps this thought may bring you around.. I am sure you have heard of a "butt dyno"... Are you really saying that the car performs like a car with even 150HP?? A 1750 lb car, with 3.69 gears, skinny little tires... with 235 HP the tires would be bald in a matter of minutes lol...

Best of luck to you, but I am out..

easy way for fuel is add propane.

I'd like to see pics of your 240d, Twintake... interior, exterior, engine bay. Can you post a few?

I've tried various ways to reduce the weight of these cars in an effort to enhance MPG / performance. Removing everything possible from the inside less the driver's seat won't get you over 100 pounds, and that's going extreme ... If you remove the hood, that's 47 pounds + the weight of the grill and hinges, so total around 60 pounds max. The trunk lid with hinges is no more than 17 pounds. What else could you have removed? Doors? You could remove the sun-roof capsule which is close to 80 pounds but you have to fill up the hole with steel or glass or something.

What other metal could be removed to hit even 500 pounds? Even removing the doors, hood, trunk lid, sunroof capsule, and insides (extreme gutting) won't get you there and I cannot imagine driving a car around with no doors. I can see no hood and even no hood and no trunk lid and no sunroof capsule, but you're not even close. Even removing all the glass won't get you to 500 pounds on top of the above items mentioned above.

So, yeah ... I would like to see some snappies. Take your car down to the CAT scales at a truck stop. Guessing if you removed 100 pounds you would be lucky.

this thread can not be real. It has to be a troll. I just cant take this serious. a 70/25 mix of gas and diesel? what? the car is gonna be wrecked in a matter of hours but sounds like the aesthetics of the car were already destroyed.

I'm thinking it's a troll of some sorts ... Removing the exhaust system entirely from the block backwards isnt going to get you anything but a lot of noise ... WVO blends, or just gas/diesel blends will decrease your BTUs a small amount but that's it. It won't make your car go faster. Diesel has more BTUs than gas.

So, just calculating the objective stuff, e.g, weight reduction and BTUs, it's either someone really off base or a troll.

Could u really see yourself writing this novel of a post as a joke tho... This is one thibg that makes me think this is a real person the second is that lol i dunno if i could make that stuff up that he is saying.

"... How the hell can I pressurize this cryptic fuel system to get more fuel pushing thru her?? Since everyone thinks more fuel is a necessity ....."

I am guessing that a majority of the fuel is probably returned to the tank so it's not an issue of getting more fuel to the chambers. Your injectors and pump are the issue. Even running R&Ds #242s will never get you to your end state with a tuned IP.

Something tells me this is a forum member taking on a 2nd persona ...

Ok guys I get it u just like everyone else think my mods are stupid.... Well at least I'm trying something! I could be outside doing drugs like everyone else my age but at least I'm doing something good with my time .

I dunno if u guys are completely right and I'm completly wrong tho so I'll concede to 150 HP from everything u guys have said!!

Now back to the topic how do I just "get more fuel" as u guys say....

Thx lot what are 242 Rds.... Tho!!!

#242s ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CcZTrFWZGo

I suspect drugs may help with some of the delusions you have of performance expected from this car...

150HP is a pretty high figure to expect from a 2.4L economy diesel from the 60s with 450K miles on the clock. Assuming you ever did get it there, the life expectancy of that engine would probably be measured in minutes.

If the body and chassis is in good shape, you should be thinking seriously about an engine swap if you want more horsepower. Forget trying to tune up the OM616, it'll always be a slug.

I think you should go back to Honda Civics and not ruin Bruno Saccos masterpiece w123 designed for economy and reliability. it's not a drift car. it never will be fast either. I say put the car out to pasture and send it to where it belongs. the junkyard. it's been ruined.

putting power to a 450k engine is asking to kill that thing in short order. not to mention the diff, the driveshaft, axles etc. if you want to make it fast, putting a Windsor v8 in it

If the OP is being serious, you could do the following with an OM616 engine:

OM616 building with VE pump

You can do this IP -- getting rid of the in-line pump. IF you did that, you could then do

AAZ injectors (2-stage). They are tricky to set but not horrible. I can dial in a set within 30 minutes but then again I have been doing injectors for years now.

IF you did that, you could go with nozzles such as #315s as those are COTS buys right now and you can find them from Germany.

You could go with 2:88 differential; get rid of your power steering; go solely with an electric fan and EWP.

As for getting rid of the half ton of steel and other weight ... that's pretty much nonsense. So, be more accurate and go for a 200 pound reduction if possible. That would be the max less you made CF hoods, et cet

Ok everyone stop!!! Why wouldn't I be serious! I'm a real guy with a real car and a real job. I've done this all before, I KNOW how to wrench on things!!!

First off.... How can my Pre 500k engine be "getting old" when this is the world famous million mile engine..... Incorrect!!

This is like the main thing that makes me doubt credibility around here. Hmmm.....


But anyways so greazzer is suggesting a COMPLETLY new fuel set up. Which kind of seems smart because it's obvious to me that these injection pumps are kind of crappy.... Like I ran a 5 gallon bucket of veggie oil (no diesel on hand) from my mom's pantry and this Bosch IP could barely keep up. The car just sputtered and sputtered.

So in conclusion ya my power problem must be this injection pump just like greazzer has told me. Thx lot.

The in-line pump is fine. You could get a mod'd in-line pump with bigger elements; however, you wont be able to run the AAZ injectors unless you go with a VE type of pump. You could go with an inline pump and if you are planning to burn grease, then the in-line is pretty much your only option.

Keep in mind you will need to re-build your head most likely with turbo valves, et cet. I am guessing you could find a machinist to modify your block to have oil squirters. You could fab up a turbo too. There are dozens of options.

All of the above will cost a bundle ... So, yes anything can be done but is a hobbyist willing to dump $$$$ into an OM616?

So, because a number of forum members have contributed their time to your project, it's your turn to share some snappies of how you sliced away 100's of pounds of steel and interior stuff.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but in case anyone is still reading:

You can delete the intake and exhaust manifold, or install a ram-air intake hood scoop, or do just about anything else... and still get ZERO power gain. Yes, zero. 500% more airflow with no additional fuel means the 72hp engine will still produce, you guessed it, right around 72hp.

It's not worth any time or expense attempting to increase power on the OM616, if you want the 123 chassis to be quicker, swap in a turbo OM617 engine. If you need more, it will take ~$1500 for a Mynä-Diesel or Dieselmekken IP along with the appropriate parts to increase airflow and cool the charge air (another grand or two, most likely). By the time you're done, you could have bought a decent used W210 E55 AMG for less money that's eleventybillion times faster (rough estimate).

Oh, and these OM61x engines will normally run great on warm veggie oil, at least until the IP's fail from being fed veggie oil. (And no, it's not a crappy pump. LOL.)

:batman:

^^^ Yeah. Photos or it didn't happen!

:D :D :D

Considering the rods coming out of the Civic, maybe not. People can get >500HP out of the D series engines on the stock connecting rods. They're a seriously overbuilt engine for what they are, but a complete different critter from these diesels.

Can the OM61x go 1M+? Sure. Do most of them? Hell no. It doesn't matter how well the engine is made, 450K miles is TIRED. Do a compression test, if you're >350PSI on all 4 holes, I'd be surprised. You're showing your ignorance on a forum full of diesel DIY-ers.

People run veggie oil in these cars all the time, the IP has no issue running on veg. Since yours has issues on veggie oil, you clearly have fuel delivery problems. Be glad you're making 55HP.

the nice thing about feeding trolls is that after a while they poop out and it becomes fun to poke the troll too ...

Specifically I want to see that 235HP he's generating on a dyno chart. Anyone got popcorn?

I want to see some snappies of the sliced and diced body. I tinkered with CF and making panels is not easy. So, if someone with a grinder can slice away like half a ton of steel, I gotta see that. I know what the body panels weigh, and even the glass.

Did the great metal diet really go down? I want to see some snappies now ...

me too ... even a OM617.95X with mod'd injectors, mod'd IP, mod'd head gasket, and a few others gizmos is probably not gonna make this ...

You believe the sales marketing pitch everyone says on Craigslist to sell the car "1 million mile engine" and that you don't need to do any maintenance too. lol. the engines that run that long are STOCK with lots, and lots of maintenance done.

The injection pump is far from crappy. lol. they last the life of the car and require little maintenance besides needing fuel leaks taken care of every so often. you thinks it crappy because you put in a bunch of unfiltered vegetable oil into it with no idea that it's supposed to be filtered and strained. so you're expecting that thick gunky oil to run thru the car? Okay!

you've done this all before and doubt our knowledge and insult us, but yet you're asking us questions? How do you know so much then if you're asking us questions?

Are you going to offer that car for sale on Craigslist for $9000? Does it get 40 miles per gallon?

This is all very entertaining folks! Keep the comedy going, I am thoroughly enjoying it!
I am waiting to see what gimmick Mr. Mega Horspower will come up with next :D
When that happens, I want to see photos! Video would be even better.

Well well well looks like everyone has finally come around and is interested in my car now.... Annndd want pics.

I'm getting ready for work and it's still dark out I'll get some uploaded when I get home this afternoon.

Oh how the tides have changed!!!!!

Have you taken a moment to read your own thread? Folks were immediately available and interested in helping you. And, they did.

You received a lot of information and years of tinkering distilled into numerous posts. You would think snappies would have been posted a while ago. That tells you something I hope.