Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion > Diesel Performance Tuning

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:40 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 2
Smile Water Injection

Has anyone installed water injection in a 603970 engine?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:52 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The slums of Beverly Hills
Posts: 6,252
Why?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:59 AM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,146
Perhaps he wants to see how badly he can bend those rods?
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 70K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "Diseasel Jr." 173K
'94 BMW 525i - "The Red Car" 180k
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-08-2020, 02:33 PM
tyl604's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,280
Not sure what water injection is, but I fell for the "Tornado" and bought one for my Land Rover. Was supposed to spin up the air and increase mileage. And was touted by two radio guys - brothers but forget their names; Crick and Crack or something like that. Wait - maybe Click and Clack?

Was a complete bust. Did nothing. So I am wondering if water injection falls in the same category.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-08-2020, 04:03 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,146
Water injection is a cheap way to cool the charge air from the turbo in lieu of an intercooler. With the stock setup, it's pointless - it achieves nothing but can risk hydrolock from water being incompressible. Usually water injection goes along with making big power - the 603.97 is a poor choice for big power due to many design issues, the 603.96 is a much better candidate, or better yet, the OM606.
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 70K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "Diseasel Jr." 173K
'94 BMW 525i - "The Red Car" 180k
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:01 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 1,205
Water Injection for cleaning
__________________
Greg
2012 S350 BlueTEC 4Matic
2007 ML 320 CDI
2007 Leisure Travel Serenity
2006 Sprinter 432k
2005 E320 CDI
1998 SLK230 (teal)
1998 SLK230 (silver)
1996 E300D 99k, 30k on WVO
Previous:
1983 240D, on WVO
1982 300D, on WVO
1983 300CD, on WVO
1986 300SDL 237k, 25k on WVO (Deerslayer)
1991 350SDL 249k, 56k on WVO - Retired to a car spa in Phoenix
1983 380 SEC w/603 diesel, 8k on WVO
1996 E300D 351k, 177k on WVO

2007 ML320 CDI .. / 2005 E320 CDI .../ 1998 SLK 230 .../ 1991 Daihatsu Rocky
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Alabama, USA
Posts: 116
I have run water injection on various engines since about 1978. In small doses, it is very effective at cleaning the piston heads. I currently use in on my 87 300D I run on vegetable oil, and on my 93 cummins 5.9 6BT that also runs on 100% waste vegetable oil. I use it to keep the pistons clean and to reduce the tendency for the vegetable oil to gum up the pistons. I set the system to use approximately 1 gallon every 300 miles.
__________________
Turbo300Mercede
87 300D W124
83 240D W123
80 300 TD Wagon W123, 4 Speed from 79 240D, SLS Rear Suspension
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2020, 10:36 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo300Mercede View Post
I have run water injection on various engines since about 1978. In small doses, it is very effective at cleaning the piston heads. I currently use in on my 87 300D I run on vegetable oil, and on my 93 cummins 5.9 6BT that also runs on 100% waste vegetable oil. I use it to keep the pistons clean and to reduce the tendency for the vegetable oil to gum up the pistons. I set the system to use approximately 1 gallon every 300 miles.
Pre or post turbo? Single nozzle or multi port? What nozzles/nozzles and pump pressure?
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-12-2020, 10:24 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Alabama, USA
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Pre or post turbo? Single nozzle or multi port? What nozzles/nozzles and pump pressure?
I use the intake manifold pressure to pressurize a one gallon windshield washer jug. The pressure forces the water / methanol (W/S washer fluid, -20 deg F type, not soap type) up a 1/8 copper tube into the inlet side of the turbocharger. I dilute the W/S fluid with filtered water to about 20 percent W/S fluid for economy. Both ends of the copper tube are soldered closed and drilled out with a .016 to .019 drill bit with a hand held pin vise. It is an on demand system, when under load and the turbocharger is making pressure, the bottle is pressurized and forces the water up the tube. I use a compression tee, drill out the long side so the copper tubing slides all the way through and to the bottom of the bottle. No ferrule on the bottom side, but I use the compression nut and a thin flat washer to seal that side to a hole through the cap of the bottle. The top side uses the ferrule to seal the turbo pressure. The pressure / boost comes in the short side with a rubber vacuum hose hooked to a port on the intake manifold. I have run this particular system for 9 years. I do have (and it is very important) a 12V normally closed solenoid valve to prevent siphoning of the water into the inlet of the turbo, which can cause hydro-static lock up and bend rods on crankup. That switch is turned on anytime the ignition is on by tapping into a switched 12V wire. The valve is in-line of the copper tubing to the inlet of the turbocharger. The copper tube is inserted into the rubber elbow just in front of the compressor of the turbocharger.
__________________
Turbo300Mercede
87 300D W124
83 240D W123
80 300 TD Wagon W123, 4 Speed from 79 240D, SLS Rear Suspension
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-12-2020, 01:05 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo300Mercede View Post
I use the intake manifold pressure to pressurize a one gallon windshield washer jug. The pressure forces the water / methanol (W/S washer fluid, -20 deg F type, not soap type) up a 1/8 copper tube into the inlet side of the turbocharger. I dilute the W/S fluid with filtered water to about 20 percent W/S fluid for economy. Both ends of the copper tube are soldered closed and drilled out with a .016 to .019 drill bit with a hand held pin vise. It is an on demand system, when under load and the turbocharger is making pressure, the bottle is pressurized and forces the water up the tube. I use a compression tee, drill out the long side so the copper tubing slides all the way through and to the bottom of the bottle. No ferrule on the bottom side, but I use the compression nut and a thin flat washer to seal that side to a hole through the cap of the bottle. The top side uses the ferrule to seal the turbo pressure. The pressure / boost comes in the short side with a rubber vacuum hose hooked to a port on the intake manifold. I have run this particular system for 9 years. I do have (and it is very important) a 12V normally closed solenoid valve to prevent siphoning of the water into the inlet of the turbo, which can cause hydro-static lock up and bend rods on crankup. That switch is turned on anytime the ignition is on by tapping into a switched 12V wire. The valve is in-line of the copper tubing to the inlet of the turbocharger. The copper tube is inserted into the rubber elbow just in front of the compressor of the turbocharger.
I like it! Simple design, no pumps to worry about. I guess if the resovior is lower than the nozzle you don't have an issue with siphoning either. Are you getting egt reduction with this much flow or is it strictly cleansing? I'm running a dino oil mixture and it probably would be a good idea to be keeping carbon/sooty crap at bay.
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-12-2020, 01:12 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 737
I guess nothing atomizes water like a turbine at 20,000 (or whatever) rpm. Have you seen any compressor erosion? I've read about people saying this happens when inducing up stream of the turbo but no proof. Any issues with cold weather and water at startup?
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Alabama, USA
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
I like it! Simple design, no pumps to worry about. I guess if the resovior is lower than the nozzle you don't have an issue with siphoning either. Are you getting egt reduction with this much flow or is it strictly cleansing? I'm running a dino oil mixture and it probably would be a good idea to be keeping carbon/sooty crap at bay.
It is for cleaning. 300 miles to the gallon of water is approximately what the .016/.019 orifices give me.

I have never given thought to EGT reduction. I have the same setup on my Cummins and it has an EGT gauge. I will try to pay attention to the readings when the jug runs out to see if the temps rise.
__________________
Turbo300Mercede
87 300D W124
83 240D W123
80 300 TD Wagon W123, 4 Speed from 79 240D, SLS Rear Suspension
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Alabama, USA
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
I guess nothing atomizes water like a turbine at 20,000 (or whatever) rpm. Have you seen any compressor erosion? I've read about people saying this happens when inducing up stream of the turbo but no proof. Any issues with cold weather and water at startup?
I have never seen any compressor wheel erosion. I ran an Edelbrock water injection back in the 80's. I had two AiResearch T04's on a 350 chevy. The injection system introduced the water into the inlet of each turbo. Ran that for 10 years. No erosion.

On my 87 300D, I have had this system in use now for 9 years. No erosion.


I run enough of the methanol windshield washer fluid to prevent freeze up. It rarely gets in the single digits here anyway, but no problems.

If I run 100 percent of the -20 deg F premium washer fluid, I get a tiny bit of torque increase from the methanol. But then I am paying nearly $3 a gallon for it, so I really don't like doing that. The whole setup on these vehicles is to save fuel costs, not add to it.

__________________
Turbo300Mercede
87 300D W124
83 240D W123
80 300 TD Wagon W123, 4 Speed from 79 240D, SLS Rear Suspension
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page