Anyone have an intercooler on their 617..?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vwbuge · #1 05-23-2004, 05:12 PM

I have a boost controller and I ****canned the air cleaner. Now I think I want to try an intercooler. Can someone tell me about their setup?

#2 05-23-2004, 05:48 PM

Could/would you please explain why you would elimiate the air cleaner in a Mercedes turbodiesel engine?

What was the 0-60 time with a CLEAN stock air filter? What was the 0-60 time without any air cleaner? If there is more than 0.1 sec differance, then there is something else wrong with the engine!

All of the attempts to intercool an Mercedes OM61x or OM602/3 engine that I've seen ANY figures for have resulted in either no increase or REDUCTIONS in power. It can of course be done, but it requires a whole lot more than bolting on an intercooler.

Marshall

The Warden · #3 05-23-2004, 06:07 PM

Ben Ridge did it a while back, but he isn't regularly posting anymore...he also did a ram-air setup, removing both fog lights in favor of air intakes (one side for the engine air intake, one side for the intercooler).

The big thing an intercooler will do is lower your exhaust gas temperature. This allows you to safely introduce more fuel to the engine, which will make for more power. But, you NEED to have both a pyro and a boost gauge before even thinking about upping the fuel output. Higher fuel output will also increase your turbo boost, negating the addition of the intercooler.

However, adding an intercooler by itself would likely lower your boost pressure (or at the very least adding to perceived turbo lag), making for a reduction in engine power. This is due to the extra distance the air has to go after the compressor.

I don't think I would add one on my car, but I'm not a power-hound either...some tweaks would be nice after getting the proper instrumentation, but I'll save any serious power mods for my truck

vwbuge · #4 05-23-2004, 08:59 PM

I did not eliminate the air cleaner all together. I did install a element similar to a K&N. I can tell you that with all the mods I did and the new air filter setup, the car is FASTER and runs better.

#5 05-23-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

I can tell you that with all the mods I did and the new air filter setup, the car is FASTER

Exactly HOW MUCH faster?

The only way I see the engine can be faster will be if the old filter was clogged or something else was wrong and isn't now.

When the engine is running properly there will be less tha 0.1 sec faster between a clean stock filter and NO filter (the least resistance possible) and a K&N or similar filter will; have MORE resistance than NO filter. That's been confirmed DOZENS of times by lots of different people.

Marshall

The Warden · #6 05-23-2004, 09:32 PM

So, the fact that the air no longer has to make a 180° turn between the air cleaner and the turbo wouldn't make a difference, in your mind?

The fewer restrictions in the air intake and in the exhaust a diesel has, the happier the engine will be...the turbo doesn't have to work as hard to get air to itself.

#7 05-23-2004, 09:57 PM

Small changes in intake restriction make virtually NO difference because the turbo provides more than twice the air the engine ever needs and the wastegate hangs open, dumping excess boost from 1600-2000 rpm all the way out to the redline. Reducing air restriction makes virtually NO detectable difference until the retriction becomes VERY great (an air filter occluded more than about 25% will start to cause a problem and the engine will start to smoke at idle).

Marshall

lietuviai · #8 05-23-2004, 10:01 PM

VW got rid of his trap oxidizer which accounts for the increase in HP, my guess would be around 5 HP. The CA model is rated at 118 HP and the fed is at 123 HP.

#9 05-23-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

VW got rid of his trap oxidizer which accounts for the increase in HP

Removing the trap oxider is more than removing just a little restriction. If I remember correctly it's more than 15 psi restriction of the exhaust! It's removal increases hp by 5+ hp and improves fuel economy by maybe 10%. It has NOTHING to do with the air filter. Please put a proper air filter on it so that it lasts a while.

Marshall

vwbuge · #10 05-24-2004, 06:16 AM

It did not increase my fuel economy. My fuel economy has been suspect as of late. You can't tell me that the turbo doesn't spool up faster without all the plastic piping bends and turns as compared to the setup I have. The power increase I am seeing is a combonation of the new intake/exhaust switch, the boost controller and the new filter setup. The car runs soo much better it is incredible. I surprised myself the other day when it chirped the tires between gears. Compared to the old it is like night and day.
Don't worry, I'll keep and eye on the filter. 301,000 miles and running better than ever.

#11 05-24-2004, 12:13 PM

Quote:

You can't tell me that the turbo doesn't spool up faster without all the plastic piping bends and turns as compared to the setup I have

I never tried to tell you that - your turbo could spin a little faster, but the wastegate will open at EXACTLY the same pressure it did before you removed the restriction and dump whatever additional boost you are generating!

MEASURE the added power OR measure the increased acceleration and post it! With the trap removed it should take about 15 seconds to go from 0-62.4 mph on level ground with no head or tail wind. I'd all love to hear how much faster your car goes!

If you didn't get better fuel economy when you removed the trap, then something is VERY wrong. 8-12% improvement is consistantly reported from every owner I've heard from. My 300TD went from an 8 year average of 25 mpg to 28 mpg over the next 4-5 years with highway driving.

On several occasions, people removed the trap and felt slightly increased power but saw NO improvement in economy. Subsequently it was shown that this was because there was little or NO fuel enrichment (the pressure line from the intake manifold to the ALDA was plugged). Once boost pressure to the ALDA was restored power jumped 30% and fuel economy improved by 8-12%. Everything you have reported would be consistant with an engine with a nonfunctional ALDA (a non turbo diesel Mercedes WILL exhibit measurable though modest improvement when even slight air intake or exhaust restrictions are eliminated - a properly working turbo won 't show the same improvement).

Marshall

vwbuge · #12 05-24-2004, 04:40 PM

So what you're trying to tell me is that a turbo that doesn't spool up faster will not make the car accelerate quicker?

#13 05-24-2004, 06:03 PM

Quote:

So what you're trying to tell me is that a turbo that doesn't spool up faster will not make the car accelerate quicker?

You don't want to take my word for it - FINE - measure it and report back. WHAT IS YOUR 0-62.4 acceleration time? Measure it as often as you'd like! The factor limiting to acceleration in a Mercedes turbo diesel is NOT resistance to air inflow. You can't pick up more than about 0.1 sec improvement (less than 1%) between a clean stock filter and ALL of the plumbing removed so there is NO resistance. I HAVE done it and I have reports from others that have done it and the results are all the same. NO measurable difference or at most 0.1-0.2 sec. and thats not reduced restriction but NO restrictions.

I have heard a lot of people claim there's an improvement but I've NEVER seen ANY data that could be replicated to support any improvement on a Mercedes 61x or 60x turbodiesel.

Measure it! I've never seen ANY data on a California car and I'd be interested to see how that compares to a federal '85 version.

Marshall

gsxr · #14 05-24-2004, 07:53 PM

Yep - I'd like to see some performance data too. Several timed 0-60mph runs, with a stopwatch, and the speedo verified by a GPS. Also please note the elevation (or at least what city you live in), ambient air temps, and any other pertinent info.

BTW, an intercooler can be a GREAT modification, if done properly. So far nobody has completed the job. Ridge did a bee-yootiful install yet failed to turn up fuel delivery, and resolutely refused to post any performance data of any kind. Kind of made us all go "hmmmmm...."

:p

vwbuge · #15 05-24-2004, 08:19 PM

I'll get back to all of you when I certify my speedo and recalibrate it to readout in tenths.