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  #16  
Old 10-07-2004, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
Doesn't get much uglier than the tail end of the new 7 and 5. The Z4 is a little better than the Z3, which I also thought was quite bad. The new 3 series is better.
I never heard any extreme negative reaction to the Mercedes turn towards the oval headlights, I thought the 96 E Class was a nice departure in styling.

Gilly
The Z4 is perhaps one of the ugliest cars ever made. It looks like they had 4 different designs and cut and pasted portions of each to make 1 car. Look at the backend on this toad; it almost makes the 7 series look OK. The only thing that beats them would be the Pontiac Aztec.

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  #17  
Old 10-07-2004, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy
...Not to mention that the new S-class looks like crap so after I get a W140 and after that a W220 where do I go? I need to find another big sedan somthing that is like MB once was...
Dont worry Chris...A w140, if properly kept, will outlast you... :p

PS...after you go through the w220, you can restore a 1990 560sel and work your way to the w220 again
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  #18  
Old 10-07-2004, 09:46 PM
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Thats assuming I ever sell my SDL, but I was looking at W140 S500's on ebay at work the other day. For $15k-$20k I could get myself into a nice S500, hmm maybe after college. I'm broke now.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2004, 11:13 AM
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BMW's nicest looking vehicle in their lineup is the X5. Its much better looking than the ML (But not the G-Class) The X3 looks disproportinate. All of BMW's cars are awful looking, starting with the 7-series. Starting when the American Chris Bangle takes over in the styling department. Why would BMW want someone from a country who designed the Aztec and Roadmaster to redesign their already gorgeous sedans?

As for Mercedes, I don't know. To me, the best looking S-Class is the 1992-1999 sedans. They're square, solid, rich--timeless. The curent S is not bad, just not as good. Maybe it is a better car-just not better looking. The next S I have seen in spyshots looks horrible. It looks totally Japanese. Why are they following BMW!!??

Again, with the E-Classes. I like the styling of the 94-95 E-Classes. The styling of the 96-2002 E-Classes is also good. Different, but good and distinctly European / Mercedes. The new E-Class is O.K. from the front but the rear is almost indistinguishable from a Camry.

I thought the C-Class was nice with the 94-99 square styling. I don't like the newer stlying of squishing the two oval headlights together.

The SL 1990-1999 was a beautiful car. What did they do to it now? Still not horrible like the BMW roadsters.

Owning two Range Rovers from two generations is a wake up call as well. In my opinion, the original Range Rover and the 2nd Generation RR are both great looking. The interior of the second is much more ergonomic and many more creature comforts--but I was absolutely shocked to find that the "burled walnut trim" was plastic! Its real on the earlier Range Rover.

List:
Large sedans still very nice looking:
Jaguar XJ
Unfortunantly Lexus LS430
Somewhat OK MB S-Class

SUV's still nice unique styling:
New Range Rover
BMW X5
Mercedes G500 / 55
So-So Landcruiser / LX470
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2004, 03:52 AM
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Personally I like the new styling - 5, 7, 6 series and Z4.
You have to hand it to BMW though - they have all the journos writing millions of words all over the world telling us how ugly they are - they couldn't buy that sort of advertising.
Then when the punter gets behind the wheel they forget about everything other than how well they drive - they are certainly selling well.
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  #21  
Old 10-12-2004, 11:57 AM
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I bet they drive great so just as long as don't look at the thing you will be happy. Does anyone know if BMW's sales are tanking?
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2004, 02:01 PM
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The Z4 seems to be hurting pretty bad. Checking at http://www.edmunds.com the 2.5 liter Z4 has $5K in factory-to-dealer cash and the 3.0 liter Z4 has $6.5K in factory-to-dealer cash. The most common way dealers use this money is to reduce the price the customer pays (or the lease payment).

The local Dallas paper this weekend had one dealer advertising 3.0 liter Z4s at $9500 off sticker. That's 20%-25% discount. Doesn't sound like a car that's moving too well.

- JimY

ps: I think it's hideous.
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2004, 02:55 PM
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ever since they made that "Land Shark" commercial thats all i can think of when i see one. didn't the Z4 beat the new SLK in all the performance specs? i was looking at the new report on R&T and found that surprizing.

for a while i liked the new SLK's look. but now i'd rather have a Z4.

but like my taste in music, i like weird things. so maybe its jsut me that prefers weird looking cars.

the E class is stilla gorgous looking thing tho.
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2004, 10:57 AM
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BMW's resale value of the 7-series is declining. By the way, they don't even drive as good as they used to, with "adaptive" steering which can slow or quicken the steering ratio. (Coming off an off ramp you have the steering wheel set where you think it needs to be, but as you slow down you are suddenly driving into the inner wall because the ratio is quicker at slower speeds) 'Ultimate Crashing Machine!'
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  #25  
Old 10-27-2004, 06:32 AM
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Actually guys, these new BMW's aren't selling that well. Not to mention the returns. Right now I am trying to find a BMW 540 sports package wagon for my mother and had some interesting conversations with salelmen. First off, there aren't a lot of E39 5 series available. The owners of these vehicles cannot find worthy replacements. Simply put, the owners of those beautiful 5's are not willing to trade into the latest 5. It's basic really. Think about it. If someone bought an E39 5 series, that person obviously loved the styling. Or for that matter, that type of styling. Well, that type of styling isn't present in the new 5. It's like buying oranges and trading them in every few years. But always sticking with oranges since that is what you like. The all of the sudden, there are no longer oranges to buy, but only apples. And that particular apple has to taste amazingly good for a person to decide that he or she no longer wants to taste oranges. This was the same scenario with the Porsche 996. As for the taste of those apples? Well, not that good really. In fact, most selesmen, when pressed for honesty, admit that the latest 5's steering does not have the same degree of feel. There are other dislikes as well. And they don't particularly like the interiors. The styling, they all dislike. Again, only when pressed will they admit it. I-drive, for example, is an abomination. My local dealer has had a rate of at least 30% returned for I-drive alone. One particular salesman I talked to, says that after many years of easilly selling BMW, he will now face some challenges due to Bangle. But BMW isn't alone. Mercedes' and Audi's current lineup isn't the best looking either. While the A8 is decent, put it next to the last generation and the new one starts to look a little worse. The way I look at it, first there are too many designers out there competing for PR in any way possible. Then there is the fact that most of them, if not all, graduated from the same school. And that is Art Center of Design. Either California or Switzerland campus. While an excellent school, the fact that they are all coming from the same school creates a sort of blandness in current designs. In the old days, the common route for a designer was to apprentice at Ghia, Italdesign, Bertonne, under Lapine at Porsche or in the Mercedes or BMW styling department. That is no longer the case. Further compounding the problem, is the fact that a lot of design centers are now located in California. Knowing these facts, does one still wonder why not only do most cars today look like ass, but alike as well? Just immagine if every architect in the world came from the same school and worked in the same city. It would be one ugly and boring world.
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  #26  
Old 10-27-2004, 10:30 AM
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Have you seen what Bertone did to the latest Aston-Martin?

Fortunantly, there are a lot of USED nice looking European cars still out there. If you need new, there is still Jaguar XJ for a nice evolutionary large luxury sedan. Forget the new S-Class.
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  #27  
Old 10-27-2004, 01:30 PM
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You know I have only seen one new 5 series! But you I can't go anywhere without seeing tons of W211's and the previous 5's are very popular.
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2004, 05:53 PM
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What!!!

BMW is breaking barriers with its new designs, things always seem odd or ugly at first when their new, it just takes a little time to adjust to evolution. Plus, if you look back through BMW history, their cars have always been far from "ordinary" . . . . that's just how BMW does it. Mercedes for one is using the same old cliche styling cues, where is the innovation in that? In my opinion the Maybach is a flop, the Pontiac Aztec of over priced luxury cars.
But, to be honest I don't like the face of the 7, but the back end is fresh and bold. The new 5 is beautiful all around, while the 6 is a master-peice.


P.S. And don't get me started on the SL, I bet more than half of you are disappointed by its styling. That car looks so out-dated for that price range, I'd take a Z4 over a far more expensive SL any day.

That's my 2 cents

Unlike the rest of you who have failed to admit, I may have a little bias, prefering BMW's overall car theory over Mercedes, plus I own a classic 2002
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Last edited by SoCalBomb; 11-04-2004 at 06:00 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2004, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBomb
BMW is breaking barriers with its new designs, things always seem odd or ugly at first when their new, it just takes a little time to adjust to evolution. Plus, if you look back through BMW history, their cars have always been far from "ordinary" . . . . that's just how BMW does it. Mercedes for one is using the same old cliche styling cues, where is the innovation in that? In my opinion the Maybach is a flop, the Pontiac Aztec of over priced luxury cars.
But, to be honest I don't like the face of the 7, but the back end is fresh and bold. The new 5 is beautiful all around, while the 6 is a master-peice.


P.S. And don't get me started on the SL, I bet more than half of you are disappointed by its styling. That car looks so out-dated for that price range, I'd take a Z4 over a far more expensive SL any day.

That's my 2 cents

Unlike the rest of you who have failed to admit, I may have a little bias, prefering BMW's overall car theory over Mercedes, plus I own a classic 2002


i agree with most of that except taking a Z4 over a new SL.

i do like the Z4 a whole bunch. I'd pick it over the new SLK. based on looks that is.
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  #30  
Old 11-04-2004, 09:56 PM
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What the new SL is one of the most stunning looking cars ever made! They look so fast when their standing still. In MB racing silver with a nice set of wheels wow! I want one so, so bad.

BMW's just blend into the corwed. The 5 looks like an Acura. Not to mention last I heard sales were down.

I would take a mint old 6 over the new one. The new one looks ok but it screams 60's Buick to me from the rear.

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