124 vs 210 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Holson Adi · #16 12-12-2005, 01:56 AM

I think the W210 is a better car in almost every respect. I love the 124's classic looks and I'd probably skip the W210 for a W211 or maybe an E39 BMW

or a used Pontiac GTO :-D

The W124 feels like an old car to drive compared to the 210. The steering is slow, it's not as quiet over bumps, the transmission is not as smooth, engine's not as responsive (and i drive the 4.2l E420).

So, given the two I'd find a nice W124 and pocket the change, or I'd go for an E39 540i (lovely car)

skiier3_9 · #17 12-12-2005, 09:24 AM

Wait...you said the 210 is a better car in every respect..then at the end say you get a 124? What did i miss?

lee polowczuk · #18 12-12-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiier3_9

Wait...you said the 210 is a better car in every respect..then at the end say you get a 124? What did i miss?

I don't know how this will translate on paper...but our 124's feel like "cars". You can feel the road, feel the response, feel the pure acceration.

I had a 1990 Q45 that was this way as well. I also had a 1994 Q45 that felt like a luxury yacht (albeit with good handling). I think this may be some of the same differences between the 124's and the 210's....although I have never had a ride in a 210.

I think Mercedes and probably a few other manufactureres "lexus-ed" their platforms to make the ride more comfy as the baby boomers aged from 70's hot-rods to scirroco's (or whatever euro mid-priced sports car) to a benz..then to a lux-vehicle.

For the record I am 48. As much as I like the comfy ride, I missed the feel of the car, hence my 124 couple that I drive now. If it had a five speed, it would probably be my ultimate car.

zafarhayatkhan · #19 12-12-2005, 03:15 PM

I believe MB went from a Recirculating-ball type steering to a rack and pinon setup on the W210.

Also the front suspension went from a strut to muti-link design.

Then the usuall structural rigidity improvements.

From an engineering standpoint, I find the W124 to be dated; it is a late 70's design.

From the outside thou, it looks better than a large number of 05 models.

Lexus is far better engineered car than the Mercedes Benz, actually there is no comparison.

Compared to a BMW of similar age, W124 is a boat without a doubt.

braverichard · #20 12-12-2005, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zafarhayatkhan

Lexus is far better engineered car than the Mercedes Benz, actually there is no comparison.

Compared to a BMW of similar age, W124 is a boat without a doubt.

Lexus far better engineered than Mercedes-Benz! You're cracking me up man! You really are. Oh man, what a joke. Just the comedy relief I needed this evening. Now I can get back to what I was doing, refreshed.

dtf · #21 12-12-2005, 06:48 PM

and here we go...............

zafarhayatkhan · #22 12-13-2005, 08:00 AM

Transmission went from 4 speed (W124) to 5 spd (W210) with electronic control.

Engine went from an inline 6 to a V-6 configuration (not an improvement in my opinion). Inline 6 is an inherently balanced configuration and does not require counter rotating balance shafts, V12 is another good configuration.

I just threw that in about the Lexus for fun!! I know you guys get pretty excited about that. I know it is a little off topic for this thread.

In a system by system comparison, Lexus parts are more reliable, even thou more complex in certain cases than the MB counterparts. eg. the MAS on the MB burns out after 30-60K miles after repeated heating, costs $200, while on the Lexus, it is a more complex optical design cost $900 but is good for probably 200K miles.

The airconditioning system in a 95 Lexus was way ahead of the primitive system found in the W124.

From the electrical system to the engine cooling system, there is a huge difference. In fairness, W124 is a late 70's design and the Lexus Late 80's, but MB was selling the vehicle in till 95!!

braverichard · #23 12-13-2005, 08:15 AM

Actually some Lexus components may last longer, but until recently, Lexus never did anything to move the auto industry forward. All it did was build nice cars using everyone else's technology. That's changing a bit such as when you look at the new 3.5L V6 in the new IS350 which has two different fuel injection mechanisms - I believe an industry first.

As for comparing a 1995 MB with a 1995 Lexus, that doesn't quite work as simply as that. MB has always had the longest product cycles in the industry. The G-Class is entering its 27th year with no major changes (the front end remains pretty much the same!!). The ML went for 9 years before a redesign. The 600 went for 19 years (no redesign though). The W126 went for 11 years. Well, due to increased competition in the luxury segments, MB has been shortening its product cycles. For instance, the W126 lasted for 11 years, then the W140 lasted for 8 years, then the W220 lasted for 7 years, etc. What I'm trying to get to here is that in the past, when you bought a 1995 MB, you may not have been buying MB's latest technology, as for instance with the W124 for which 1995 was the last year of its 8 year cycle. For a true comparison, you'd have to see what MB was putting in its newest car for model year 1995. And even that isn't a very good comparison because previously, MB was this brand that spent many years to engineer cars so they could be built over a long period of time with minimal updates. That has had to change due to much increased competition. Lexus on the other hand, as well as other automakers, make serious changes to their cars even as the chassis remains the same. From what I've seen on older MBs, that wasn't the case.

braverichard · #24 12-13-2005, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zafarhayatkhan

Engine went from an inline 6 to a V-6 configuration (not an improvement in my opinion). Inline 6 is an inherently balanced configuration and does not require counter rotating balance shafts, V12 is another good configuration.

May not have been necessarily an improvement, but it wasn't going backwards. This was done to enable MB to use the V6 engines in smaller cars, unlike inline 6s which were too long to fit easily into smaller hoods.

Hatterasguy · #25 12-13-2005, 12:46 PM

In 95 you could buy a W210 in Europe, the W124 was 15 year old technoligy at the time. Now stick a E320 alongside a 95 ES300 come one the MB was still better. Toyota also designed that car in the early 90's I think 92-93 was the first year for that car. Plus these two cars are apples and oranges, one is a rwd sedan the other is a very softly sprung fwd car. Toyota's with heavy V6's up front push pretty hard through corners, with the MB the limits are much higher.

Toyota makes damn good cars but they do not pioneer systems and techonigy, thats why they are so reliable. Let the Germans sort out the problems first then they copy it.

I love how people put Toyota up on a pedistal, go read the Toyota forums about how people are screaming about their pos Camry's. I guess they chew through tires because Toyota fubar'd the front end design and the dealers can't get the alighnment right. Or the LS400 owners that have to actually fix anything, I think starters cost $1k to replace on those cars. They have timing belts as well$$$.

420SEL · #26 12-13-2005, 12:58 PM

I have had my 210 for about a year now after 3 years in a 124. It has taken me about this long to get used to the way it drives. It doesn't feel the same, but its not a bad car at all. When I first got the w124 after 4 years in the w126 that also took a long time to get used to. The w210 does feel looser in normal driving, but when you need to make any kind of high performance turn it seems to be more than capable, certainly every bit as good as the w124. The Toronto MBCA club had a driving event in October which let me test the car out with some pretty sharp turns around pylons, etc, and I was impressed. I think the car looks good, especially on the inside, while more modern, still looks like a Benz. I also like the 8 airbags, although I hope I never have to actually see them. For the first 6 months was I back and forth between liking the 210 and wanting the 124 back. Now, I think I am just about settled in.

braverichard · #27 12-13-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Or the LS400 owners that have to actually fix anything, I think starters cost $1k to replace on those cars. They have timing belts as well$$$.

To be exact, the starter costs $1900 when replaced with a brand new one by a Lexus dealer. I owned a high mileage LS400 and luckily for me I didn't have to pay for a starter replacement. My starter was going south, the dealer gave me the quote and the very next week my girlfriend totaled the car.

zafarhayatkhan · #28 12-13-2005, 02:13 PM

The starter location leaves a little to be desired on the Lexus LS400

On top of that, the failure rate is above average!

It is ironic that the components with above average failure rates are difficult to access. Another example is the AC evaporator on the W124.

Given a choice between a 98 S420 and a LS400 (both have similar pricing), I would choose the LS 400 without hesitation. That would be a leap of faith thou, as I have never driven the LS 400! I have driven the LX470, but that is a different animal.

My information is based on MB and Lexus forums, as well as surveys like JD Powers (they rate an 8 year old LS 400 more reliable than a new BMW 7 series) and consumer reports (yeah they test toasters too). As well as automotive industry periodicals like "Automotive Design & Production", "Ward's Autoworld", "Automotive Engineering", "Automotive Industries" to name a few.

Hatterasguy · #29 12-13-2005, 02:19 PM

I'd take the S420 simply because it is a better driving car and I like MB's. Maintaince is going to be a lot for any high end car. At least with MB parts are pretty cheap and easy to get. Also they are pretty easy to work on.

I really don't like working on Toyota's I always cut myself. My friends dad has one of those monster Lexus suv's. LX4 something or other. It is a good truck, he never keeps them longer then 3-4 years though.

braverichard · #30 12-13-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zafarhayatkhan

Given a choice between a 98 S420 and a LS400 (both have similar pricing), I would choose the LS 400 without hesitation. That would be a leap of faith thou, as I have never driven the LS 400! I have driven the LX470, but that is a different animal.

My information is based on MB and Lexus forums, as well as surveys like JD Powers (they rate an 8 year old LS 400 more reliable than a new BMW 7 series) and consumer reports (yeah they test toasters too). As well as automotive industry periodicals like "Automotive Design & Production", "Ward's Autoworld", "Automotive Engineering", "Automotive Industries" to name a few.

If reliability is all you're after in a car and "feel" and prestige don't matter to you, then by all means the Lexus is probably what you should get. I know we've all read those surveys, but for some strange reason I've never come across a MB owner whose car is troublesome, and that includes many owners of M-Class Benzes. I may have only met a small fraction of the car owners obviously, but these surveys also use less than 1% of all new car sales. Furthermore, Consumer Reports has insufficient data on nearly all years of W140 so they didn't rate those cars. Put all that together and you'll see that whichever car you buy presents a risk. Lexus' track record suggests a lower risk though.