I'm looking at a few E280s (93-94). One has a manual 5-speed, the other two are autos. The price and condition of the 5-speed looks great, but over here in UK the MB manuals have a terrible reputation for being baulky and unrefined in contrast to the superb autos. Does that fit with your experience? (All three cars are 400 miles away so I want as much knowledge before trekking down to see them (through the snow!). Cheers.

Our very first MB was an auto (W123 230E). Then we had an auto W124 (230E) and never looked back since.

The auto trans are as good as the manual. Except when needed a major service or overhaul.

Personally, my preference lies with an auto.

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... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.

You're kidding right? The MB manual although baulky and clunky is a work horse compared to the auto. Also a major overhaul on the manual doesn't come even close in price to that of an auto overhaul. Having said that the auto will last beyond those of other manufacturers, MB autos ar bullet proof compared to those.
It boils down to your preference and the availability of qualified technicians in your area to deal with your auto. I have found that people who are used to slicky smooth manuals hate the MB one with a passion

Appreciate your comments. As I thought, the manual will outlast the auto - but how much do you value the benefits of the auto? I'll be doing a lot of town driving so a baulky manual shift doesn't sound appealing, although the longevity does. What is the lifespan of an auto before overhaul? I'm looking at 50k and 80k miles autos - how long before major expenditure?!?!?

I rang about the manual car to check it was a 7 seater. It isn't and retrofitting costs £1,000 ($1,600 or so)... makes a difference to one's pros and cons calculations.

Most of this is personal preference. Personally I go to whatever lengths necessary to seek out a manual transmission Benz. But that's just my personal preference.

I agree with YAL. MB manuals are bullet proof. The practical side of things. I have driven about 800,000 miles in MB manual transmission cars and have NEVER had one of the transmissions apart. I have put in a few clutches and changed the lubricant in the transmissions, but have never so much as replaced a seal in one.

My wife prefers an automatic, and I have paid an enormous repair bill on her station wagon some years ago.

Keep in mind that my practical comments are just that, the practical side of it. But my personal preference is very strong and biased. Driving a Benz or any other car with an automatic takes 90% of the joy of driving away. As I said at the beginning, I go to any length to have a manual transmission Benz. These are EXTREMELY rare in the US. If I lived in Europe I would be in heaven because of how easy it is to find a manual transmission car.

When in Europe last year, I left drool on all the MB's that I saw with manuals.

Good luck,

For 50k to 80K miles you're golden with an auto. They last well close to 150k-200K some people have gotten more out of them. So I guess its down to your preference. What ever you choose get it checked thoroughly by a qualified tech.

i agree that the MB manual is balky compared with a BMW's or even a Honda's. But one thing i like about it is that you have a long-legged 5th gear for relaxed cruising (for the driver and the engine). And you can take top speed in either 4th or 5th, depending on the urgency of the situation (e.g., teaching one of those souped-up hondas a lesson) or your mood.

but the feel is very solid, and there is nothing like having direct control over which gear that free-revving inline 6 talks to.

but when there is traffic, i yearn for an auto ...

I agree with Bobby where I would appreciate a manual if I'd be travelling on a long stretch of road, or just in the mood of getting that rev up .. but in jams I'd stick with an auto anytime.

Give comes to my next thought - does MB come with a step-tronic like the Bimmer does? That would be a compromise, wouldnt it?

__________________
... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.

Yes, the new MB's have a selective system on the slushomatics. You move the stick side to side to step up or down in gear. If you like slushomatics, the electronic controlled transmissions allow for some neat control arrangements.

The logic of liking a manual for the highway but not traffic, does not wash with me. If you're on the highway you miss the fun of using the manual transmission. If you drive in town, then you can have the fun of using the clutch and stick. This is the opinion of a true and experienced manual driver.

Many younger people, particularly in the US where manuals are rare, have limited experience with them so they have not developed the instinct of handling a manual transmission. Once you have enough miles under your belt with one, you really don't notice the difference in the feel of the stick, whether it's a Benz, BMW, or a dump truck. It's a great skill to have.

Have a great day,

one tradeoff for a manual is that i am wary of having anyone else drive it, e.g. for valet parking, or even with some non-MB auto shops (e.g. for emissions testing). The reason is that few know about how to get the thing into reverse gear, and the last time i had the car emissions-tested, i placed a sticker on the dash indicating how to get to reverse (!). But that's just me.

I agree with Larry Bible that the manual is ok for city driving when there is NO traffic (stop-and-go). Then i can enjoy the manual for engine-braking, and especially heel-and-toe downshifting on some corners. It also offers more control in the winter.

otherwise, when there is stop-and-go traffic, it is more of a burden.

when driving on 2-lane country roads, a manual is invaluable because you have more control when overtaking. 3rd gear is ideal for the job, because it can take you all the way to 160kph (100mph).

ideally, i would have a manual car for enthusiast's driving, and an automatic for a more relaxed pace in the city.

has anyone heard of one news item where an auto thief left the car after breaking in into it because it had a stick shift and he did not know how to drive one?

Yes Larry - I think I'm a spoilt driver. Very spoilt and lazy .

I "used" to appreciate manual cars as I was more comfortable with having a manual. But that changed when I had the opportunity to drive my dad's first 230E in auto.

Having said that, we have a Honda Accord parked in the garage and thats manual ... and it is a joy to drive that on the weekends with less traffic. There is the pleasure of motoring with manuals, but on work days when traffic's heavy, I'd readily trade the manual for an auto.

__________________
... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.

For me, I will always seek out a manual if available.

Aesthetically there are just some joys in a manual you simply can not duplicate in a auto. Downshifting correctly for one can be down much more smoothly than a auto and you defiantly have more control of car speed with gear selection.

As for as driving style you have Heel-&-Toe driving, something I have been practicing since I learned what it was 15 years ago. There is simply no other thrill than driving at a brisk pace threw a twisty road and nailing every downshift perfectly, its a definite measure of harmony between car and driver IMHO.

Traffic does sometimes become a pain in the leg, literally but that is what I call exercise. I have found that picking the right gear (one that requires pedal movement to move forward) and not rushing to the bumper ahead of you will often avoid 50% of shifting in traffic and cause less yo-yoing behind you.

For durability sake, Mercedes kind of makes the point moot by building such hardy examples of both? Maintenance comes regardless, with the manual you simply have the chance to DIY the repairs to a greater degree and save a little $$ as well.

[Edited by roas on 03-01-2001 at 02:36 PM]

I guess I didn't make myself clear. Stop and Go traffic with a manual is just that much MORE fun. The more shifting I do, the better I like it.

Have a great day,

Sure MB autos are very good, but manuals are just so much more fun to drive.

I agree with Larry, there is nothing better than getting stuck in traffic with a manual. Sure you're stuck in traffic, but at least you are having fun.

And about the auto inspection. The last time my car was inspected, I had to go over and shift the car into reverse for the person performing the test while they held their foot on the clutch.

-Just my two cents.

Plus there is no torque converter to transfer kinetic energy to heat energy.

Larry - you were right about newer MBs have the whatcha-call-it slushomatics (is that what its called?).

We were driving Swanee's parents' C200 which had this slushomatics and it was FUN, Fun, FUN!

You should have seen Swanee's face when we made a whopper overtaking a couple of cars with the rev as high as the clouds.

The excitement didnt last very long. It got us home quicker than an auto would ...

__________________
... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.