Hello Larry,

Glad you enjoyed our little "battle with words". You have owned Mercedes for a long time and I am sure can relate to some of the comments made during our discussion. I also enjoy some of your points on several issues. The ones on MBZ price policy and the inability to configure a car the way one really wants, manual tranny, no sunroof, etc... are right on the money. It is beyond me why MBZ simply refuses to offer a base model that meets EPA/DOT standards and then let the customer decide how he/she wants the car. I cannot understand what emmissions and DOT issues have to do with options like sunroof, leather, power windows, etc... I realize most customers do want everything plus cup holders... but there are those of us who like to pick and choose what we want. My step-father drives a 1981 280S in Switzerland and the only thing I would add to it is A/c. The car is perfectly enjoyable with its manual windows, white glass, cloth seats, basically as standard as they come.
Thank you and best regards,
Joe Brasileiro
1980 450SEL
1987 Jaguar XJ6

I agree with the "let us build our own Benz" sentiment. I recently sold my '86 300E with 5-speed and had my heart set on getting another 5-speed (new Passat V6, or used BMW, Audi, etc.) I finally broke down and bought another Benz ('94 E420)--which I love--but I do miss the control/feel of the 5-speed. They are putting 6-speeds in the new C240's, but I'd lose 4 cylinders and about a million horsepower/ft #'s torque

Mitch,

I enjoyed your comments, buy you'd only lose two cylinders. The C240 has a 2.6 liter V6 and is very surprisingly peppy. It won't beat your V8 ina drag race, but I have been very impressed with the cars spirit, and a manual transmission to boot.

I have waited many years to own another new manual transmission Benz sedan, I'm very pleased with MBUSA for FINALLY giving me the choice, and with the car itself.

Good luck,

------------------
Larry Bible
'01 C Class, Six Speed
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

I reread some of this thread and remembered that it began by talking about build quality.

Now that I have over 4K miles on my Six Speed C240, including an 1,800 mile round trip to Gatlinburg, maybe it's time to report on the car as it feels so far.

Except for the sound when shutting the front doors, this car has the same quality "feel" that my 300E has. There are absolutely NO squeaks, rattles or any other things that make this feel less solid than a 124 or 123 car.

The car, even though it does not have the sport suspension, is very stable at high speed. I have yet to take it over 100 MPH, but at that speed it feels great. In fact it feels as stable as my 124 car in spite of a little more body lean. I should note here that I have added sportline sway bars and shocks to my 124 car. My original thought was to put the sport sway bars on the C240 at a later time, but these items are the same. It's the springs, shocks and tires that are different on the sport package. Maybe later someone in the aftermarket will make stiffer bars.

The stiffer bars with the same springs works great on the 124 car. It seems to leave the suspension limber to keep it's grip on an uneven road, while having less body sway. It makes my 124 car not have body roll.

In conclusion, if I did not have the strange sound when closing the door, I would favorably compare the solidity of the C240 with any previous Benz product that I've ever owned.

Have a great day,

------------------
Larry Bible
'01 C Class, Six Speed
'84 Euro 240D, manual, 533K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

Larry, funny thing about the sound a closing door makes. A lot of manufacturers have been engineering the "sound" for many years. When the current E-Class came out, I remember thinking how the doors didn't sound the same. After a couple years, MB made some seal changes and the doors sound better.

I've just thought about a great way to test the build quality of the new MBs. Somebody buy me a new S500

Sorry, hit submit by accident.

Anyways, somebody buy me a new S500 and I will gladly drive it for 15 to 20 years and then get back to you on how it compares to my 86 420SEL, which I will still be driving then. Only time will tell.

JP

Forget the S500 give me a S600

------------------
Dan Younes
---------------
1985 euro 500sel 223k
1986 420sel 86k soon 2 be
1981 300sd 285k sold
1979 240d 298k sold
1983 300sd 272k sold
1989 chrysler 2.2l Turbo
Leabaron 140k
1989 Dodge Carvan Se 295k
20001 Mitsubishi Mirage
1994 S500
(hopefully someday)

Tracy,

Had to post a quick clarification for the 500E, it used the standard MB 5 litre engine from the 500SL. This was mated to chassis that had "Porsche tuned" suspension, and was built where Porsche fabricated the 959, because due to the width of the front fenders, the 500E would no longer fit on the W124 production line.

David Hendy
'92 500E 64k miles

My two cents worth. I love MB for their character and superb ride. As far as it being cheaper to repair than Hondas and Toyotas, I have to disagree. You are comparing different cars here, built and sold to different end-users. You pay upfront for a MB while Toyotas and Hondas hit you later on. I have found that normal servicing parts may be cheaper in a Merc but other parts are still sky high. I had a 190E 2.6, which had done 45000km, and had the following done...engine mounts (heard of one being replaced in a Toyota or Honda?), front tie rods, steering damper, front shock absorbers, tail shaft damper and finally front ABS sensors. The interior trim has started peeling away from the top of the doors. The car overheats in summer and pings unless I use the high octane fuel.

To be fair to Lexus, which we should be comparing Mercs to, I have yet to see one tattered and torn. I read one of the thread that the interior trim materials could be better in a Lexus, are there any evidence that the trim had failed? Split leather trims?, well, I've seen them in a Benz. Leather is like a living material and must be fed for it to maintain suppleness, therefore it doesn't matter what car it is in.

As a car nut, I enjoy all cars regardless of make and model. Anyone telling you that you won't lose money on a Porsche, Merc or Lexus is a liar. All car LOSE money, although not as quickly as the stock market currently!

Despite all the problems I've had with my Merc, I still have a soft spot for it and will quite happily buy another if only my wife would allow me to turn the front yard into another double garage. How can two cars be enough?

G'day to you all!

i never expected this thread to get this long thankyou everyone for anwsering my question

Dan, I was wondering how your 500SEL is holding up after 230K miles. I've never driven high mileage gasoline benz and would like to know what the car feels like. Does it puff any blue smoke during startup? Have you had you rebuild/overhaul any part of the engine? I've been to your site and it looks great(espically with those wheels!).

Jesse
98 C43
94 Range Rover

It is holding up great just little things the most i have had 2 do is a head gasket because i let someone barrow the car and it was over heated. But since that it is great i blow cars of the line and get great gas milage. It does put out a puff of smoke but not blue. Right now it is having some trouble turning over tough.
thank you the wheels were a great investment.
http://www.1985500selbenz.homestead.com/benz.html

The 500E/E500 also had a special fuel injection system that the Sl's didn't.

__________________
"Damn the torpedos, four bells full speed ahead"
-Admiral Farragut




-1987 300E Smoke Silver
-1997 S320 Black on Black
-Soon To be E55 AMG
-27 foot Grady White Offshore Sportfish.

I'm currently driving my first MB which is a 99 CLK320 with 17K so far. I've had no real problems, no complaints, no repairs. I'm extremely happy with the car and impressed with MB quality. My previous cars were BMWs totaling over 300K miles each. I thought they were also excellent and reliable but have found myself much more impressed with the form, fit and function of the MB. I don't know much about the older MBs but am very impressed with the new. There seems to be some MB bashing by those with bad experiences and it's unfortunate that it tends to overshadows those of us with reliable, quality cars. Just like in todays media bad news seems to sell and get the attention. I do think its unfortunate that some have had bad experiences and this is a good site to resolve these problems but lets keep it in an appropriate perspective. Keep up the good work MB!