are the new mercedes built as well as the old ones ive heard they are completly diffrent

------------------
Dan Younes
---------------
1985 euro 500sel 220k
1981 300sd 278k sold
1979 240d 298k sold
1983 300d 272k sold
1989 chrysler 2.2l Turbo
Leabaron 130k
1991 300e 2.6 (hopefully soon)

I've sounded off on this before but since your asking...

Having owned an early model 911 and a first generation Turbo Quattro, I thought I knew what to expect when buying my first Mercedes, a '97 E320. I expected a firm ride, solid construction, perfect style and quality materials. I got one of the four (style).

This "latest generation" MB was a real road-wanderer and had great difficulty staying on its intended course. While chock full of convenience and electronic doodads, its fit and finish was spotty and materials suspect. I was very disappointed.

One day I happened to check out an E500 at the dealer. What a difference the W124 was! Ambiance, character, warmth and luxury combined with snarling, road-ripping power. I traded straight-across the next day and haven't regretted a moment.

Okay, X-files fans, is there a conspiracy? Is MB dumbing-down the line to lower prices and sell more units? Will they substitute build quality for electronic pacifiers and hope people don't mind paying through the nose when all those circuit boards begin to melt (remember, I owned an Audi)? Finally, will they step in with a new, high-end "Maybach" line-up to capture the big bucks from those unsatisfied with the faux-AMG styling rampant at MB?

I say "yes" to all the above, but thats just my opinion :(



------------------
Dean Albrecht
94 E500
99 ML320

www.need2speed.web.com

[This message has been edited by Dean Albrecht (edited 07-03-2000).]

I'd have to agree that quality for Mercedes has reached a new all time low. Out of 6 mercedes that were 1997 and up, only my E55 hasn't really had any significant problems.
A 97 E320
97 S500 Coupe
99 CLK430
99 CLK430
99 ML430

All had some problems. The ML suprisingly the least but build quality and materials used were considerable more substandard than the rest.

I have had considerable experience with 16 family MB autos over the last 28 years. This begins with 1967 SL and includes various 107,116,123,126,201,124,129,140 cars and an ML. In my opinion the cars improved in design and execution. The ML is not close to Benz quality. It may be an excellent design but is really cheaply made compared to the cars (materials and build quality). I find that the newest cars have been cheapened considerably compared to the 140 and prior. The S class Benz should be the best car in the world and have no competition. Benz used to be 'the best or nothing' now they are content to compete at price points with inferior (to Benz) products.

its sad beacuse it is like they are going after the money instead of the quality now.


------------------
Dan Younes
---------------
1985 euro 500sel 220k
1981 300sd 278k sold
1979 240d 298k sold
1983 300d 272k sold
1989 chrysler 2.2l Turbo
Leabaron 130k
1991 300e 2.6 (hopefully soon)

My 98 E430 has a too soft "floaty" ride, wanders on the road and is precarious and unstable at high speeds (even with 17 inch wheels and low profile tires). The steering is terrible lacking tightness and road feel. The tranny does not kick-down quickly or properly. The V-8 sounds wimpy and the headliner/sunroof rattles. The paint is not durable and scratches to easy. I guess I will have to upgrade the suspension to E55 parts.

------------------
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>1998 MERCEDES-BENZ E430
<LI>OBSIDIAN BLACK METALLIC/BLACK LEATHER
<LI>XENON H.I.D. LOW BEAMS
<LI>DEBADGED (E430 REAR)
<LI>AMG CHROMED TIP DUAL EXHAUST
<LI>CARLSSON 1/6 Wheels/DUNLOP SP SPORT 5000 from TireRack
<LI>SLK "WREATH" WHEEL CENTER CAPS
<LI>ATP FLASH Wheels/YOKAHAMA AVS dB from TireRack
<LI>ALPINE CHM-S611 CD CHANGER
</UL>

[This message has been edited by Kevin (edited 07-03-2000).]

i wish my 85 had a floter ride it fells every bump



------------------
Dan Younes
---------------
1985 euro 500sel 220k
1981 300sd 278k sold
1979 240d 298k sold
1983 300d 272k sold
1989 chrysler 2.2l Turbo
Leabaron 130k
1991 300e 2.6 (hopefully soon)

From the picture European Car is painting the next generation E-Class is going to be closer in build quality to the "made for eterinity 124". The W210 has like 1/3 fewer parts than the 124 (i think). I think the M class was built for a price and maybe they can do a better job next time.

------------------
-1999 ML320
-1995 E320
-1994 E420 (lowered 1.5 in useing Eibach)
-1980 300D
-Had 1985 300TD Wagon (for over 10 yrs)
-Had 1993 190E 2.3

Come on gents!

You can do better than that "in the good ole days they were made better" line. At least reference the market dynamics that forces MB to position where it does at the price it does.

My 99 E430 quality has been outstanding! This becomes more evident as I look at others considered --
-- My friends GS300 that I can smoke 0-80, while he goes for third set of rotors and complains about steering feel. His seats look like they are five years old already. (I know the specs on that car say faster, but it our case not true.)
-- The 540i I looked at, with more tire thump and tramlining right off the lot than I would tolerate... outstanding handling, sweet engine... but boy racer NVH is over the top. No thanks, I'm not 16 any more, I just drive like it.
-- The Jag S Type without enough head room that can't get out of it's own way with 4.0L.
-- An A6 4.2, not out when I bought, but slower and much less solid than my e430.
-- And, uhh, that's it! Not one car in the class with the same quality / perf / luxury and build as the MB.

I suspect that MB could have made a better e430 than my e430 for $75K. Frankly, I'll take what I got for the low 50's, or consider the E55 or an S Class if I want to spend more.

Suggest that the next person that laments the 210 vs. 124 do it market adjusted terms. MB would be uncompetitively building the same volume as Alfa (hyperbole noted) if it stayed the business course of building tanklike structures in this Audi/Lexus/BMW competitive world.

Now, counterpoint, perhaps we can get those boys in Alabama to figure out how to make a quality ML approaching what comes out of der Vaterland. That would be something!!!

Cheers,

I find it hard to compare new cars to the older ones. In general, new cars are just so many times better in performance, passive and active safety, overall. I supposed one can say that with more gadgets, more can go wrong.

Perhaps a more relevant comparison is between a brand new MB and a brand new BMW, Lexus, Jag, etc. I have certainly heard of lots of complaints from 5 series owners about their rattle and squeaks, and they always say, if you want good build quality, go for the MB.

May be we're all expecting more from our cars nowadays and become more easily disappointed?

I want to see some possible changes with Mercede's engines and transmissions.
ok, back in the 80's and the early 90's Mercedes was not any slower compare to BMW or Lexus. Look at them now !
I wish they kept the 4 valve engines and make it better.
Mercedes are falling behind while everyone else in the market is catching up. Another fact is that the price on Mercedes are not any lower compare to Bimmers or Lexus.
I never been on a BMW mailing list or discussions, but I think they might be more happier with their cars ? Because we all can see some possible changes in BMW right ?

In reading this thread, I've found others, beside myself, who have experienced decreased reliability with newer MB's. My '96 E Class turned into a nightmare of problems.

When you talk about better, just what category are you talking about, the way it drives, reliability, or what?

To me, sure I want a great driving car, but reliable, troublefree driving is what drew me to MB automobiles many years ago, and that's what's number one to me. The '96 E300D I had, did not deliver on this. I eventually went backwards when I found a manual transmission 300E. Drivability wise, the 300E is great, but falls a little short of the 210 car. But in spite of my recent problems, overall, this car has given me the reliability that I expect from an MB. At the same time, to be competitive, MB has to go toward the hyper tech automobile to be competitive.

On the one hand, I would like to have one of the 2001 C Class cars with a manual transmission, but I am afraid it will be a hyper tech, unreliable contraption that will get my bloodpressure overlimited because I'll have to deal with the poor MB dealer service departments we have in this area.

In spite of the apparent decreased reliability, I expect that it's still better than many, if not all of it's competitors.

My $0.02,

------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

You guys are seriously making me consider biting the bullet and holding onto my '77 6.9. 150K on the motor and it purrs like a kitten. So what that I had to pay $500 a pop for front shocks?! The doors close like a vault and the San Francisco potholes disappear beneath the suspension like flower petals strewn about the street. I've had friends tell me that feel as if they could have a tea party in the back seat though I'm doin' 90 down the interstate. Even the air conditioning on the thing still works. The three-pointed star atop the grill looks and feels so over-engineered and tight that I wonder how anybody ever has them stolen. And, as an added benefit, there aren't many cars classier for a night on the town (at 13mpg!).

I could probably get 10 grand for it (and that low only because the dash has cracks and there is a small tear in the rear seat leather). But what could replace it? Even more interesting, what could replace it 23 years from now from Mercedes current cars? Which of these cars wouldn't have had massive electronics failures in that time? Maybe, by then, it won' t matter: Gasoline powered vehicles will probably have been banned by then (at least in California).

Just some ramblings.

John

John:

Keep your car. The older it gets, and the better maintained you keep it, simply conspire to make it more of a jewel. That's a nice ride you have there.

Now, I specifically picked a 300TE and a 500E myownself, 'cuz I seriously intend to keep them forever. I've been in a bunch of chassis, and really like the W124 (though I don't think the 500E is a W124; too nasty :D ) so my thought is to find a Benz you like and keep it forever...'cuz there's nuthin' safer (my patent excuse for owning a 300+HP sedan!!).

Enjoy your ride.

------------------
Best regards, Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

I agree that the build quality is beginning to suffer also. More electronic gadgets scare me, especially when so much depends on them, like the Comand system. I plan on keeping my 1984 300SD for several years, perhaps until I can afford a 500E. Then my wife shouldn't complain of no power when she drives my car :)