126 potential purchase..advice needed! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 01-01-2003, 03:11 PM

My longtime mechanic is selling his 1987 560SEL (champagne, brown). It has 125k on it, he is the 2bd owner, and the service history is completely documented. The car has never experienced any material mechanical issues; only routine servicing. It has been driven correctly and not abused. I drove the car for about 30 minutes and the only thing that concerned me was quite a bit of "squeaking" coming out of the rear seat area. Jerry (the mechanic) said they pretty much all do that and some silicone treatment will eliminate most of it. I tend to believe him as I spoke with a 420sel owner and he said the same thing about the rear seat area.

Anyway, longterm reliability is my most important concern; fuel economy is secondary. I was looking at acquiring a 300TE but after driving this 560sel I am hooked on the comfort and power. What I've been able to gleam is that these cars are reliable IF serviced correctly and not abused. I also was pleasantly surprised to find that things such as buying rebuilt engines and transmissions is not that much more expensive than a 300TE motor/tranny.

From what I've gathered from the expected life of the 560 v8 it almost seems as if a diesel is not that much better in terms of life expectancy. I suppose the main thing is that keeping that neat V8 running smoothly is the issue.

Everything works correctly on this car. There is one small ding, paint is perfect, interior perfect other than abovementioned squeaks. Goes like a bat out of hell. Oil has been changed every 3500 miles since new.

I was thinking of checking out a 1990 version of the 560sel prior to talking to jerry about his car as I wanted to see if the updated interior is worth waiting to find a 1990 version.

Jerry wants 10k for his car and it is a 100% california car. 10k is above the blue book but seems reasonable for a fully documented car maintained by a factory trained mechanic. prior to Jerry's ownership it was dealer serviced.

Feedback?

thanks and happy new year
carl

420SEL · #2 01-01-2003, 04:17 PM

I don't think the updated interior is a big deal. Its nice, but I preferred the first couple years after '86. These cars are great, as you said if they are properly cared for. My 420SEL (sold) was treated as well as it could have been by the first 2 owners and I ended up haveing to spend a ton of cash the last year I owned it. In spite of this, I had no problems or major expenses with it the first two years I owned it. I started getting into the big stuff around 200k miles (330k km). I am expecting to need a second car in another year or two and I am already looking for a nice late 80s or 90-91 560SEL. Great cars! If you have a history with your mechanic and you can find backup that the car has been well cared for I think it is a good buy. If you want an idea of what the updated interior looks like seach ebay for 560SELs, alot for sales have pics online both inside and out.

#3 01-01-2003, 05:17 PM

Jason,
thanks for the feedback. Would you share the laundry list of items, and associated approximate costs, that went south on your 420sel while you had it and the mileage when it happened? I had a pretty bad experience with a 1987 300D that I bought as a certified preowned car with 41k on it. I retired it at 240k (a list member that repairs his own cars bought it and revived it). I spent a ton of money on that car and have been casting fond glances at toyota camry and honda accords. "Course, they handle like crap.....and I hate timing belts.

I was considering seeing what I could find locally in a 420sel as the standard type suspension is more appealing to me than the hydraulic suspension; much cheaper to renew. But, if the only car I can find with a fully co

Can you comment on the squeaky rear interior area that I experienced on the 1987 560SEL?

One thing that Jerry, the 560 owner, mentioned to me about the newer interior and upgraded sound system of the 1990/91 w126.....the stock upgraded stereo costs a LOT of money to repair when it fails. He thinks that simply upgrading the stereo in the pre 1990 models is the way to go; I would ten to agree with that statement.

Happy New Year
Carl

stephenson · #4 01-01-2003, 07:53 PM

Carl,

I have a 1991 350SDL and I "think" the 90-91 W126s all had split amp stereos ... I have been waiting to repair/replace mine for a year or more ... great advice from some of the folks on this site re: hooking into the original harness just off the amps with speaker cable to power the 10 speakers. Doesn't sound like a big deal and lot more flexible and less expensive than swapping out Becker components.

suginami · #5 01-01-2003, 08:26 PM

I didn't realize the '90 / '91 W126's had an updated interior. I've only casually looked at them though, but the instrument cluster and center console area have always looked the same to me.

I don't think there are really any inherent flaws in these 420 or 560 SEL's. The only major repair / maintenance item is to be sure to replace the timing chain / tensioner / chain rails every 120,000 miles or so.

Regarding the squeak, I have never heard of these cars having a squeak in the rear of the interior. The leather does make a squeaky noise when it rubs against itself or something else, but a constant squeak would drive me crazy.

Last, the Becker radios in all these cars are not very good. What ever you buy, I'd gut the system and install a new radio and speakers.

420SEL · #6 01-02-2003, 11:26 AM

I'm working from memory here as I gave away all my service records when I sold the car, but here goes.

I needed a new center resonator and rear muffler at around 300,000km (180kmiles) (this had been done on this car only 60k miles earlier by the previous owner who did not use MB parts, but after market. These things were expensive. Secondary air pump went shortly after, (that's around a grand just for the part, but I got a used one from a salvage yard for half the price), I had a broken rear spring shortly after that (not bad for the age and mileage to have held up - it was original) so I did both rear springs. The shocks were original too and in great shape . I had has some problems with the castor arm joints. The car was in Nova Scotia most of its life, so combine salt air with lots of raod salt in the winter and you have to expect some rust under the car, but that had to be sandblasted and glass beaded to built it back up and get the front suspension working well again. The biggest problem was a rough idle (search the tech forum for my previous posts) that no one could diagnose. I had low compression in 6 and 8 cylinders. I was told get a valve job, but that might not help and a bunch of stuff. It seems I had the engine looked at a half dozen times but no one could tell me what was wrong exactly except it would cost a heck of a lot of money. Since all the other things mentioned above had happened in the same year (and added up quickly) I was so frustrated I just gave up and sold the ar cheap, not wanting to spend any more (I think I spend around 8 grand in 2001 on that car) and I bought my E420. Most of the problems could be explained by age and milleage, and probable neglect. When I owned the car I changed the oil every 2000km (1200 miles) I know that sounds extreme but it was usually dirty by then and doing it my self was cheap enough. I don't think there were any inherant problems with the car, and inspite of the problems that car never once left me stranded anywhere. I really miss it, even though the E420 is more powerful and faster and all the big cars really make you feel like you're king of the road. I would have kept it, but everyone told me even if we spend this many thousands on a valve job we can't guarantee it'll solve the problem. Hope this helps.

stephenson · #7 01-02-2003, 11:34 AM

Yikes!

Sounds like a horrible experience, made even worse by having a car that should not fall apart like this! Even discounting the muffler issue, the springs should not break, nor should secondary air pumps cost $1000! Jeez ... I was considering a V8 W126, but this scared the bejezzus out of me.

1200 miles between oil changes? May be a record!

#8 01-02-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a horrible experience, made even worse by having a car that should not fall apart like this! Even discounting the muffler issue, the springs should not break, nor should secondary air pumps cost $1000! Jeez ... I was considering a V8 W126, but this scared the bejezzus out of me.

My family has taken the 1985 380SE (V-8 powered W126 sedan, similar engine architecture to the 420) from 140K to 203K in four years of ownership and if you add up all repair and maintenance over four years of ownership you might figure $6,000, but not $8000. The most expensive things we had to do were repairing the damage from a timing chain that jumped a few links ($2500 all told) and getting a new exhaust system and catalytic converter ($1500 for a custom "free-flowing" job from an exhaust shop). This car has never broken a spring, but it's been a Pacific NW car most of it's life--no salt on the roads here.

Right now, it needs a new idle control valve, and the lights on the climate control display don't light up anymore. But these are the worst of its problems. The 560SEL sounds like a very together car, especially if it was owned by a tech who serviced it himself.

-Sam

420SEL · #9 01-02-2003, 04:56 PM

It wasn't a very good year for me and my car, but it certainly didn't put me off the 126 MBs. When I bought that car it was the first MB I ever owned, I knew nothing about them and was just so excited about owning a Mercedes I bought it without really checking it out. On the other hand I paid a pretty low price for it to begin with.

PS (The $1000 for the air pump was in Canadian dollars)

#10 01-02-2003, 09:52 PM

'90- '91's had dual airbags and allegedly more durable cams. The rear (air) suspension is a 560-only feature in the U.S., and should be examined for leaks and evaluated for a hard ride. I believe certain components (nitrogen spheres?) can fail, turning the ride harsh.

Have the timing chain, upper guide rails, and chain tensioner been previously replaced? If not, they should be considered as candidates for replacement. There are few "show-stopper" failures on a gas 126, but worn components of the type described above can ruin your engine, your day, and your wallet. About $800-$1,200 to replace.

If you have a solid, uninterrupted history of on-time oil changes and the timing chain issue is resolved or moot, the engine should last a long time. I've heard on this site that the bottom end on a M117 engine almost never wears out, unless the P.O. completely neglected (no oil) it.

I think www.mbcoupes.com has a list of items to examine when considering a w126 coupe. Most of this list is relevent to sedans as well.

Nice cars, good luck!

#11 01-03-2003, 02:23 PM

I spoke with the mechanic yesterday about his 560sel. No the timing chain has not yet been done. SOME of the major service has been done but not all of it. Those things will all be done if I buy the car at no cost to me. The owner of the shop told me they would charge, normally, about 700 to do the chain job. The major service would be a basic 450 plus any parts for the tuneup. Since the engine already has a new water pump, starter, coil, distributor cap, and spark plug wires it should not need much more. We put the car on a lift and examined the rear suspension. No leaks under the car to speak of and the rear suspension works fine. Apparently, the thing with the rear suspension is to use the correct factory fluid religiously. Also, the one thing that often fails that is not real expensive is the accumulators and not the actual shock absorbers (those are not cheap). I went through the same drill on my 1984 300TD; it needed accumulators prior to my purchasing it (as well as rebuilt seats all the way around).

The 300TD will be for sale soon. The paint is immaculate and only one dent on the car; some person managed to drop something on the roof. I assume this was done when hauling something on the roofrack. The car is gold (original paint) on tan Tex interior. It has the factory alloys and they've been chromed; very little if any scuffing on the wheels (not checked lately). It has a nice Alpine AM/FM/CD with alpine speakers installed; sounds nice for what it is (not a killer stereo but works just fine; there is no room in these cars to do a real installation and that will cost a small fortune). The transmission has been rebuilt once but I've not the records to prove it, unfortunately. I might be able to get them. Everything works correctly inc the cruise control and climate control systems. Only drawback is the car has 232k on the clock (which appears accurate). Front and rear shocks work well; no leaking in the hydraulics. The door locks open just fine all the way around after the car has been parked a few days; ie, the system holds its pressure. I have seen lots of older cars where the central hydraulic locking system will not open all doors until you fire up the engine; my assumption is there is a leak somewhere. The car does not smoke anymore than any other 123 turbodiesel I've seen and we've owned a 1982 300CD, too. Engine runs fine, uses little oil. Good car.

Car is in Oakland, Ca.