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  #1  
Old 08-02-2003, 11:55 AM
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What's less than perfect with the E320 CDI?

Already ordered my new E320 4-Matic wagon in May. There is an 8-month wait for the 4-matic transmission, so I can still change everything else about the car, including the engine. I keep on reading good things about the 320CDI. Seems to have the same performance as the gas engine, but be much more economical. It is also almost $3k cheaper to buy. Surely there is a trick. What are the negative aspects? Very few people buy them here, and the sales person does not give any reasonable story about why.

Momo

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  #2  
Old 08-02-2003, 08:30 PM
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Very few people buy them here, and the sales person does not give any reasonable story about why.
The salesman can't give you a reasonable reason WHY?
Maybe I've been in the wrong line of work, I should go into sales!
The reason WHY is MB hasn't offered a Diesel in the US since 1999 model year. (Maybe I shouldn't go into sales, I'm too abrasive).
The engine will be a little bit of a shock for the MB techs in the US, as it will also be the first CDI diesel to be offered by MB in the US market, although other manufacturers have had it for awhile, and MB has offered it in many other markets, but the techs that haven't had prior CDI experience will be learning it fresh.
Most negative aspects of prior MB diesels should be pretty well gone with this engine, as far as smelly exhaust and noise, I think it would be alot of fun to drive.
You of course would need to make sure a supplier of diesel fuel is relatively easy to access.

Gilly
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2003, 05:43 AM
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Diesel unpopular

Well, diesel fuel is more expensive than normal gas here, supposedly to discourage trucks from crossing the country, and to cut down on particle pollution. Even all the MB taxis seem to be non-diesel. I certainly have an image of them as being noisy. I suspect the sales guy would prefer to sell the slightly more expensive car.

Momo
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2003, 05:15 PM
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Sorry, Momo, I didn't notice that you're not in the US, so NO idea why Diesels aren't more popular in Switzerland. In the US very often you will find Diesel around the same price (or more expensive in some cases) as gasoline, but the fuel economy will usually make a Diesel engine more economical in terms of cost per mile.

Gilly
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2003, 09:17 PM
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It is funny that you mention that gas engines are more popular in Switzerland than diesel engines.

All throughout Europe, the CDIs have gained a great momentum, being almost as fast as their gas equivalents with a 25 to 30% gain in fuel economy.

Particulate emissions have also been reduced to equal gas engine's emissions (or even less) and they are definitely quieter and smoother than older generation diesels.

The premium car market is a good example on the matter: sales of the S 320 CDI / S 400 CDI are now splitted 50/50 against their gasoline counterparts (S320/S430/S500), and in some countries in the Union diesels have a higer market share.

The only complaint I have heard about the CDIs is that the diesel quality must be supreme (and I mean top of the line!), if not, a lot of malfunctions and problems with the direct injection system will develop very fast. But this is only applicable to America, I doubt you will find any country in Europe with inferior diesel quality.
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2003, 11:48 AM
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Answers

After discussion with the sales guy, the decision became easier. There are no plans to introduce 4WD for the diesel engines. So I stick with the E320 gas engine. Though no longer relevant to my discussion, the salesman said the new engines still make a lot of noise when the weather is cold.

Momo
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  #7  
Old 10-03-2003, 11:03 AM
Bud
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I live in the US and was intrested in the E320 CDI. I spoke to my dealer about it and he said they were taking orders for delivery sometime next year.

I've got second thoughts about getting one mainly because of the poor quality fuel in the US (both gas and diesel). I think there will be problems with rail injection over here due to the high sulfur content in our fuels.

One of the reasons I liked diesels in the past was their simplicity. The new ones have catalytic converters, electronic fuel injection and will take quite a while before the US service departments learn how to maintain it.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2003, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Particulate emissions have also been reduced to equal gas engine's emissions (or even less) and ....
I'm not sure this is true. I have not read a lot about the new CDI engines, only what's been in The Star. I believe they are much better then the previous technology, but not as low as a LEV or ULEV gas engine. Maybe a search on the Diesel Discussion board could yield an answer.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2003, 01:33 PM
Bud
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MB USA announcement.

http://www.mblink.mbusa.com/Inetapps/PressReleases.nsf/Inews2/A792351955B6429D85256CE1005EACAA?OpenDocument
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2003, 02:55 PM
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From inside...

Having tested these now... the CDI model is indeed noisier, particularly at startup on a cold day. Once under way, there is not any noticeable difference with the gas engined car. However, I'm not an expert tester.

The dealer tells me that there are major issues with the new diesel engines that have turbos. (The CDI is not one of these.) There is allegedly at least one turbo issue with no known solution.

Momo
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  #11  
Old 10-06-2003, 03:27 PM
Bud
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The E320 CDI that's going to be imported into the US has a turbo charger. See the link above.

As I said previously, I think that the high sulfer diesel fuel in the US could cause trouble with both the rail injection and the catalytic converters.
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  #12  
Old 10-07-2003, 01:30 AM
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Oops

Oops, you are right. It is indeed the 320 CDI and the other CDI models that have the issues.


Momo
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2003, 06:15 PM
Mike Stone
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E320 CDi - I Know of no Problems

I have had E320 CDi's for nearly 4 Years and have found no problems whatever with them.

More performance than the E320 Petrol V6 and lots more MPG.

Reliability of mine is 100% and others that go to the same service center is 100% so I am told.
They have not had a single major failure in the 4 years they have been servicing them.

I also think that this "Low Quality" Diesel is a rumour based on lack of knowledge.
In my travels around Europe I have put in my tank a fairly wide variety of different quality fuel and the only difference observable is the MPG I get.

Think your Dealers are "Afraid of the Unknown".
They and the buyers of the CDi will soon learn that it is the finest Diesel money can buy.

Noise is only an issue for the first Minute on a very cold day.
Then it is hardly noticable unless you have the window down.

Regards

Mike

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  #14  
Old 10-11-2003, 12:12 PM
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Turbos and catalytic converters

In the last week, I have been lucky enough to be able to discuss the problems with taxi drivers in Paris, Vienna and Stuttgart. The message is the same in all three cities. When launching the new model E-class CDIs, Mercedes changed the design of the turbos and the catalytic converters. Taxi drivers are (allegedly) getting repeated turbo failures on the same engines, and are also suffering from leaking catalytic converters. This allegedly affects all CDI engine variants.

Momo

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