GSXR you have far more patients then I do, I got tired of his long winded complaining by page 3.

BenzDiesel maybe it is time to step back and let the car be for awhile, it seems to be driving you crazy. It is not worth getting that stressed out over a car.

Take the hard lines off the ip and crank to see if fuel shoots out. If fuel is not shooting out you have an internal IP problem. Remove the pump and take it to a diesel shop. They will be able to bench test it and determine what is wrong.

Andy has fought 1/2 dozen bad Ip's on his 300SD and you don't see him complaining.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

True but as GSXR said even if the timing is off the pump should still pump fuel. Pete's was 180 degress off and it still ran!

When you crack the lines are you getting fuel up to your injectors at all?

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I will answer your question. Yes, fuel gets to the injectors but only when the valve seal caps are loosened. However, the fuel does not pump with enough pressure to pop the injectors to allow fuel to enter the combustion chamber. Without fuel getting into the cylinder, the engine will not start, regardless if there was 1000 pounds of pressure on each cylinder.

BenzDiesel

Humor me more. According to an another post you replaced the IP? I am assuming it was with a used one and you replaced the delivery valve seals as you were putting it in?

Ok now I am not IP expert but if I was having that problem here is what I would do:
a) When I did my delivery valve seals everything went smoothly their doesn't seem to be much to mess up. So if you followed the procedure they should be fine. Re torque then just to be sure if you havn't already.

b) If that doesn't work then, how do you know the IP you bought was good? Did you hear the previous engine that it was on run? Is their a warranty? I would suspect a bum IP. Now this gets tricky you could do what Andy is doing and get a few used ones and try it that way. Or you could bring it to a diesel shop and have them go through it. I have a good shop in New Haven but you are probably to far away.

Their are little metal plungers inside the IP that build the fuel pressure. It is possible there was water or very bad fuel was run through it destroying the seal these plungers make.

Do you have your old IP around?

Edit:
I don't recall this was about a year ago. But their was a long post about it.

Pete Burton(sp?) is his handle.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Bosch IP's are used on tons of diesels and are among the most reliable out their.

I think after almost 20 years all bets are off. Is it possible Andy got 6 bad IP's sure but not likely. I think his problem lies elsewhere but that is another thread.

What is your theory? So this is the IP that has been on the car for at least 25k miles? Did it do bad all of a sudden or after you did the delivery valve seals?

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

BenzDiesel from what I have been able to get out of your posts is that you replaced the head. Then you bolted the IP back on with new delivery valve seals because they were leaking. Now you are not getting much fuel pressure to the injectors.

OK redo the seals if you have not already. If that doesn't do it remove the IP and have an injector shop go through it.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

benz, i ran into a situation on a 603 that may be some of your problem,i earlier gave up on this thread because of the bs and i am 64 years old and dont have time to go back and read all that has been discussed.
but i do remember you saying you had parked on a grade for an extended time, so there is a possibility that the check valve that is installed in the lift pump(fuel)has gone bad and letting fuel leak back to your fuel tank.
i was reassembling an older 615 engine and noticed that with the ip#1 port open for ip timming that i had a loss of fuel,i pump it up and fill the ip with fuel,dont touch nothing and down it woulg go,so the chevk valve wasnt holding and the fuel was getting sucked back to the tank. first one i seen to do that,but it could be happening to you.
if it were me i would start with a fresh battery,tighten everything up,crank till it starts or 45 seconds pass,clamp the rubber fuel line with a clamp(tank to primary fuel filter)let her set till my starter cooled off and repeat this process,would put a charger on my battery and sorta help it alone.
many ways to prove the check valve is bad but i am lazy and look for the easy way.
72 old cars

1: There are published procedures for installing and timing injection pumps. Experiment at your leisure, but the correct procedure (used by Benz since about 1935) is to set the engine at 24 degrees BTDC (or TDC, I forget) and set the IP marks on the driveshaft to align with the mark on the collar, and install. Should be within a few degrees of correct timing.

2: Diesel engines work by heating the air with compression and THEN injecting the fuel to start combustion, not by compressing an ignitable mixture. They'd have carbs otherwise, not expensive injection pumps, believe me!

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Peter, the 24 BTDC "wet" timing methods are only specified for the OM61x engines. All the OM60x engines use the RIV tools, which measure a different timing point, 15 ATDC. The "wet" method was never officially approved by MB for use on the OM60x pumps, although several people have used it with success. (However, I think only one of the 3 different 'wet' methods works - and I can't remember which it is!) I find the method with the tool is infinitely faster and easier, but I guess some people don't like buying tools. Just don't ever confuse the two different numbers, as the car may not run at all with the timing ~40 degrees off...!

end and reach it's TDC stroke at 15 degrees AFTER TDC on the compression stroke of cylinder #1. It appears according to the diagram that end of delivery in the injection pump would end at TDC starting out from 24 degrees BTDC or at least somewhere close to TDC on the cylinder's compression stroke or looks like it SHOULD or might. Plus, the TDC on the injection pump stroke is NOT the "end of injection stroke" and it might make more sense to have the TDC of the injection pump to end at 15 degrees AFTER TDC, which in effect would have the injection's pump "END OF DELIVERY" ending at ZERO TDC or very near it, which would then make full injection coincide with the cylinder's TDC and would account for the "EXTRA" travel needed for the injection pump to reach from the "end of delivery stroke" to reaching "full TDC", which could be 15 degrees. Anway, it has to be at one of three places at this point for me, which is encouraging although I'm dreading getting back in the fluids.

Anyway, I'll try timing the injection stroke to end at TDC at 24 degrees BTDC of the compression stroke "if" this ending at TDC at 15 degrees ATDC is not correct.

BenzDiesel

It seems like the pump just "jumped" out this time. Anybody with concrete advice and would like to jump in and invest in this endeavor, just go right ahead. I'm wondering if 40 degrees BTDC is the full travel from injection pump BOTTOM DC to it's TOP DC.

BenzDiesel

Benzdiesel, the IP should start to inject at 24. I think that's what psfred was saying.

Thanks
David

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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