I thank you for both your time and your honesty!!!

In Canada, apprenticeships are hard to find. U.W.O (my school) offers absolutely no apprentiship type programs whatsoever. There is one apprentice type automotive technician course at Fanshawe College but, a sponsor is needed.

How do things operate in the United States?
I know of none other than HOT ROD UNIVERSITY in cooperation with Universal Technical Institute. Upon calling them I was given nothing but, attitude and I believe the lazy operator did not even process my request for information due to the fact I live in Canada.

I AM DEAD SERIOUS WHEN I SAY I'D MOVE IN A HEARTBEAT IF A FACTORY TRAINED POSITION WAS AVAILABLE IN THE CONTINENTAL
UNITED STATES!!!!!!

Any other advice or places to obtain further information?
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

THANK YOU MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
Sincerly,
MIKE MCKINNEY
JASON SCHNEIDER

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1989 300CE - 269,000 km
1994 SL600 - 59,000 km

I hear what Donnie is saying. I worked as a mechanic until I was 30, going to school at night and attaining my first degree. Took a pay cut to be an Engineer, from lead mechanic at a Diesel truck shop.

The ceiling comes quick when you work for someone else. Owning a shop is the way to go. Lots more fun. and more money. As a mechanic, you are overhead to any shop owner, (cold, but true), so they will only pay you what they need to keep you there. Machiavellian, but realistic.

P.S. Last year, a friend bumped into me at Walmart and asked me about joining him in starting a shop down here. We discussed targeting the Japanese cars and only a/c and electric stuff. The salary he thought we would pull in far exceeded my Engineer pay........

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1989 560SEL (172k)
1989 325IC (122K)
2004 Suzuki Volusia LE (3500 miles)
2005 Yamaha Road Star (20 K miles)

I'm surely not an expert on Canadian labor practices, but I think you would find things quite different in the US.

You talk of apprentise programs. Other than in union states (I'm not sure that includes any but Ca.) I doubt if you could find any such programs here. There are plenty of Automotive Trade schools and trained techs are such a premium that many dealers will run their own OJT programs.

It is very easy to work as a technician in the US. I have often said that if you were a fleeing felon the two easiest fields to get lost in would be farm laborers and automotive technicians. The cash business in auto repair is staggering. (Refer to my above comments about lack of regulation).

Anyway, being a sharp technician requires quite a bit of training. If you get a generic two year degree in auto technology you will be able to find a dealer that will place you at that level. The dealers and independents are crying for recruits in my area of the world.

Unfortunately from that point, unless you are like Donnie (quick with hands and mind), you will be low man for quite some time. Doesn't pay well especially if you are buying that 20-45k tool box.

Whatever your plans are, include some formal education. If you really want to do this, the ultimate success is owning your own business. To achieve that, automotive skills are only a small part.

Good Luck!

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

Just wanted to say thanks to all the techs who help us out on this forum. As far as Mercedes technicians in general, I don't really know how much they make, but I have never been shocked by charges for service on my car (parts sometimes, yes). The work these guys do is incredible. My car is the second most important thing in my life, anyone who can keep it in terrific shape is worth it in my book. My last mechanic in Halifax, would always do little things for no charge everytime I took the car in for servicing (like oiling all the hinges - doors, gas cap, trunk hinges, etc, and cleaning and lubing the antenna too) In addition I you went in for one small thing he would always walk under the car and check out everything under the hood to make sure it was ship shape. I was probably only paying that guy half what he was worth (he made up the bills not me). If you're looking to get into the business I can't tell you if you'll make tonnes of money or not, but most MB mechanics I have met sure seem to love their jobs.

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Jason Priest
1999 E430
1995 E420 - retired
1986 420SEL - retired

I know someone at the Seattle MB dealership that started as a courtesy driver and within a year was working as a service technician. Sadly, not a terribly good one but he is willing to work and learn. In his case, time will tell. This dealership is growing immensely and they are all but desperate for help. They are the only MB dealership in Seattle and one of only 3 in the area with a population of about 2 million folks and a lot of MB vehicles. If you give yourself the opportunity to talk with a dealer in any heavily populated area, I am all but sure they can give you both guidance and quite possibly a job that could work into something great. I know of several technicians at this dealership that have been there for over a decade (in several cases twice that). The key, as his been indicated above, is willingness to make a real commitment to learning a part of your daily life.

Any time you work with technology you have to keep current with not only this years models but, since the service life of a MB is something like 20 years, you’ll have to learn a lot about previous years models as well. No one expects anyone to memorize all this stuff, but the ability to learn the systems and do excellent work are what really pays down the line.

Good luck & always give your self the opportunities to reach & then exceed your goals.

…Tracy

I don't know what the techs make at the local dealership, but the dealer's service rate is $60 per hour. This is the same amount my VW dealer charges. Fortunately my VW is under warranty and I haven't had the "pleasure" of paying that amount. I haven't brought my car to the MB dealer for service since I am more of a DIYer. Though I may be going to them to get my rear springs installed. Mine are sagging a bit, it's real noticeable when somebody sits in back. I know I could probably get the springs cheaper through the partsshop, but as everyone knows, no shop is going to install parts you bought else where.

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1999 MB SL500 (110,000 mi)
2004 Volvo V70 2.5T (220,000 mi)
2014 Tesla Model S 85 (136,000 mi)
MBCA member

First off, it is not nosy to ask! I wish someone had told me how it is before I developped an obession with car maintenace.
Okay, so I have worked for a VW dealer in Ontario for a few years, although not Mercedes but a dealer anyways
Techs are underpaid. I will not become an apprentice despite the offers. I am in service or parts or clean up, not a tech. I work as a ski coach in the winters in Maine and make more money! Yes, the techs there own nice homes and probably pull in 60k a year cdn. I think they make $16-18 an hour, flat rate. Flat rate is the problem, you can make alot of money if your quick and get "juice" work, but that computer or wiring problem job will give you alot of stress when it takes double the book time, if the problem is ever found (intermittent). This is the biggest reason to avoid the industry. Stress, I see those guys go through hell everyday, they have to beat the clock cause the dealer overbooks (policy basically). So when a **** job comes along they get screwed and the the other techs get the work, not them. Then the foreman chews them out for being slow. Not a nice place to work. Tools do cost alot, probably the same as going to college for four years. The demand for techs around here is outrageous, but they still will not pay. Another problem is Wal-Mart, who pays licensed techs $10-12 hour. The dealers see techs working for so little and therefore figure $16 is plenty high. Soon, when enough dealers have over stressed the techs and they quit and go to the high tech industry, there will not be anyone to hire. The local schools are not promoting their apprenticeship programs due to government cut backs. No more educated techs. No one to fill the jobs that will soon be vacant. I know the same story applies for the local Mercedes dealers too, the owners treat their employees poorly.
NEVER take your car to a flat rate dealer, the service will be much better at a straight time dealer! The oil will actually be drained, things properly torqued, they have time to fix the car right, not rushing to ge the next car in. I cannot stand to watch a flat rate tech work, nothing but rushing and poor repairs/butchered cars. They fix the car, but abuse it in the process, and it is not fixed with longevity in mind.

Wow! These are some points that might bother me the next time I take my car to a dealer. As far as I know, I've never been anywhere that hasn't been flat rate. I get told how much it would cost for parts and how many hours it would take. This explains the 2 hours labor that I get charged for brakes!

Kuan

In My business as a computer technician, my time is by the hour, and if a job takes me 3, my clients get billed for 3 hours.

i do not schedule appointments back to back unless I know what is needed to finish the first appointment in time.

I am usually about 95% accurate in my time estimates as to whena job will be done.

The same should apply to the automotive repair industry. If a car comes in needing diagnostics, it should be sent to the diagnostics area then sent to a tech for the repairs to be done etc etc.

The problem with my business is that if I don't have any appointments I'm not being paid. (i own the place so if no business is coming in, I don't make money.) i would say that if someone is working full time and getting paid hourly, that even if they are sitting on their ass doing nothing all day because there was nothing to do, they still get paid.

When owning an independent shop for automotive repair, this is something the owner always has to be concerned with. His employees are being paid on a time basis and get paid whether there is a car to fix or not. Most people i know will not work on a job based pay system, where they only get paid if working on something.

I have done itmyself, for about 3 months beofre I decided that if i was going to be paid ona per job basis, then I might as well be in business for myself, at least that way when I am not working on a repair, I can be working on the business end of my business.

if you love cars, and love everything mechanical, and like to take things apart, and get a huge satisfaction when putting them back together, then you should follow your dream.

Over here, you can go to school to learn automotive repair etc, but its not something that is done quickly, it takes time and all.

I would think that if you are really interested in being a tech, and even more so working on mercedes, perhaps you can go apprentice in germany with MB, or perhaps you can find a small shop that needs help in exchange for knowledge and minimal pay.

just like the way the business works in hollywood, where everyone has to start out at the bottom (were not talking stars or celebs here, we are talking the people who make hollywood work) involves a lot of grunt work. my brother has been working at a talent management firm for the last 2 years, and before that he worked at another talent mamngement firm. They call him an assistant, but since he has been paying his dues tot he industry for the last 4 years, he will be promoted to a manager within the year.

For him, he has been payed very little, but the things he has learned and the connections and contacts he has made, are well worth the trade off. but later on when he has become a manager and is doing his thing, he will be making tremendous amounts of money and the payoff will be great.

But like any industry, you have to start somewhere, no one can just jump right in and make it to the top without getting their hands dirty for a while first.

In my business, I am doing all the computer repair work right now, but later on, I will have techs who get sent out while I stay in the office. but in my case, the office would have to be on the golf course... hehe

I dream to be able to sit on my as all day doing nothing while my business generates enough income for me to live well, and all.

but in order to get there, I have to do the grunt work and all for as long as is necessary.

To my clients, I am worth every penny, but to others, my prices are too expensive. Thats just the way it is, though I can say once a client has had me come by, they will contnue to peruse my services and pay my fees.

I think if you want to be an automotive tech, then by all means do it. If it is your dream, and if it most importantly makes you happy, then there is nothing wrong with it.

The problem today is that more and more people do things just for the money, end up working in a job they hate for 30 years, then retire and spend the rest of their lives regretting not following their dreams.

Do what makes you happy, because if you are doing something you love, then it really doesn't seem like work.

I love computers, so for me its not work, but rather its my hobby. I love to find the problems and fix them. it makes me feel good inside, and makes me feel like I have accomplished something.

The reward I feel when I have done a good job or fixed something is what keeps me going.

in one instance, I had a client who was told to replace his main board and processor.

I go, take a look at it, Change the video card, the system boots, I swap the old video card back in, the system is all set to go. total time: 5 minutes. - Total billing for the repair... $75. and that was discounted for the customer as a promotional thing.

now the customer was so pleased that he did not have to spend hundreds on new parts, that he gladly paid me my fees.

I could have been immoral and told him he needed to replace this part or that part, but I just don't work like that. I do not change parts unless absolutely necessary, and my customers get to benefit from my expertise in my field.

I would not have the knowledge without having trained in school and without having worked in the industry for the last several years. what school didn't teach me I learned in the real world.

School can only teach you so much, the real world can teach you much more. the trick is to put in 200% effort and take it seriously. you have to work hard to get what you want.

Thats my opinion on it. Though I did stray a bit off the topic. hehe

Alon

__________________
'92 300CE - Sold
2004 C240 - 744 - C7 Wheels - Android Radio
2002 C320 - 816 - Sport Wagon

I have been paid on a flat-rate system most of my professional career. The way we do it is simple. Diagnostic time pays straight. That is, you punch the clock and that is what you make and the customer pays. After you find the problem, the replacement of the part pays on flat rate. That way, you never have to rush.

I know for a fact that most techs will slow their production my 35% or more when given a salary. I have seen this also cause MORE mistakes because a salary tech doesn't usually have to pay for the mistakes where as a flat rate tech does.

The techs in the shop I work in all are flat rate. We take care of our customers. The work you get depends more on proper management (I.E. happy techs, not pay scale) than anything else. If the shop you go to is poorly run, your work will be poorly done.

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Benzmac:
Donnie Drummonds
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 11 YRS

So what steps are taken to keep the Techs happy? Just an example or two would be fine for me. Maybe some of these steps can be applied to other businesses? Why do I ask? I am getting pretty sick & tired of the business that I am in. When people ask me about it, I tell them,: "you don't own the business, the business 'owns' you" And I don't mean financially...that part is fine, (just the other day we received another plaque to hang on the wall ) its the way that this particular business just seems to want to consume all that you are, and leave you with an empty shell resembling a once happy human. Everytime you think that you have someone that will work out, and that maybe this year you can take off more than just a week (we close once a year for a week), they end up leaving, or in one case a fellow "Baker acted" himself. And once again I end up holding the sht end of the stick. I cannot say that I haven't tried, I have, for too long actually, it has cost me alot, more that I care to admit. I am not quite sure what to do after the place sells, I have considered working down the street at an MB shop, I have been offered work there before, for basically the same money. It has since changed hands, and although me and the new owner get along well, it is too early to tell if he will pass along the same offer, if at all. I have also considered working at a MB shop further south, but I do not know much at all about how things are run there, and if y'all could give me a few insights as to how to spot a happy tech. I 'd appreciate it. Maybe I could even use some of those tips in my place, but then again, after nearly 12 years, I have had enough.
Thank you for your patience with my longwindedness, at least you have the option of scrolling through and I'll still think you read the whole thing.

Oh, in closing, I'd like to say that I bet that most of the time the tech does not get paid what he/she is worth, its usually, but not always, not enough, or too much.

-Larry

I have been a Mercedes tech for over 25 years. I began working on cars at home when I was 12 or so and got familiar with VW's about the time I began driving. Several years ago after a day at Bosch training school about 10 of us went to dinner together and realized that almost to the man VW was our entry into the German car field. I'm afraid that today there is no similar way of entry into this biz. I've met dozens of young men who have thought that this was somehow a glamorous career. Let me promise you it's not! The challenge of fighting to stay on top of technology, consistently do flawless work, compete for hours against your fellow workers, put up with the enviornmental pollution, the strain on your back and feet from standing for 90% of the day, the expense of maintaining a quality set of tools, the general lack of benefits, make this profession worth twice what many of us get. Look for old techs in most shops, they just don't exist. The strain of trying to make a living as a foreign car tech is more than 95% of us are willing to endure. But you knowwwww, I love cars. Especially German cars, Especially Mercedes Benz, call me a sucker or a kook. It is rewarding to evaluate, estimate, and ultimately complete a quality repair that you know most others can't, won't or don't care to do. I have 4 sons and I have never encouraged any of them to work on cars. Maybe this is blind negativity on my part, but I'm sure there are thousands of occupations that are rewarding, easier on your mind and body and have some type of retirement associated with them, almost non-existent in the car field. I have a sincere admiration for any man that has been able to stick with this profession for life. A couple of years ago I had the urge to go back to the dealership here in Indy. They wanted me badly, enough to offer me 12$ an hour, I nearly passed out! Today they get parts replacers from the local technical college. These are kids still living at home with Mom and Dad or as I have found in a high percentage of Men, they are married to a Girl who makes more money and has all the benefits required to get by today. Did someone hit a nerve here? Not really. But don't be critical of a person until you walk in ther shoes.

Our technicians are paid hourly with time and one half for overtime. They are paid a performance bonus based upon billed hours that can make up to 30% of their pay checks. The performance bonus was added to the pay they were getting about 8 years ago and has been most of the increase over the years.

In order to make 40k a year flagging 12 a flat rate hour one must bill 64.10 hours a week. This makes the conditions quoted above. Our average over eight techs is 35 billed hours a week with each tech working about 43 hours. In the business this is slightly above the average and considered poor. The difference between my best techs who turn 45-50 hours a week and dealer techs who turn 80-90 is mostly the systems. Flat rate/commision systems have placed a larcenest heart to those as big as Sears.

The real problem is that there IS a ceiling to what the public will pay for auto repair. When I was growing up, my richest freind's dad was a TV repair man (owned his own shop). Anyone know any rich TV repairmen today? Our public system for personal transportation is changing. Cars are being recycled with factory leasing and restoration - Ford now owns the largest string of salvage yards in the world. Cars like MB will probably have the last true craftsman as the rest of the industry makes disposable cars.

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

The question should not be if the techs are paid enough.The question should be should.the dead beats who wouldnt know there arse hole from an elephant be paid anything.Real techs are as rare as chickens teath.To many of the dregs that have stumbled into a Mercedes shop.Are not worth a crap.I would like to see from this site more info on who really gives a crap and can work on these cars.Michael

Michael,

Do I detect perhaps just a hint of bitterness in your writing? Not that I would debate the point extensively, but most shops do offer a warranty, of sorts, to assuage repeat problems.

That being said, from the perspective of most techs I’ve spoken with, the issue is that so many things suffer wear at the same time that it is not infrequent to solve one problem to have another rear it’s ugly head. Put differently, it would seem that almost never does any one thing go wrong at one time. When you couple this phenomena with the average tech that fixes a problem as it appears to them, only to find that it was really another, or additional problem that was what you noticed, you get both seemingly a repeat problem and then another problem. This amounts to frustration on everyone’s part and a bigger bill. How frequently this happens, and your temperament for such things will decide if you sell the “heap” or continue with it’s seemingly endless “restoration.”

As a case in point, I formerly had a ’91 300 TE which I named Moby. If you ever read the story you’d know that Moby Dick destroyed his Ishmael as Ishmael was determined to win the battle. In my case, after 2.5 years and somewhere between 40 and 50 trips for repairs (at little or no direct cost to me). I gave up, and bought a new ML. The point here is two fold. 1) Moby had a Starmark warranty. And as long as the warranty was active, the service department was happy to throw as many parts at the car as was necessary to solve his problems. But he came up with more problems than the service department could ever completely solve. After doing this for so long, I got tired of the trips to the dealer, the rental and loaner cars, and the too few brief periods of no problems with the car. After a while time becomes more costly than money. And point 2) is that sometimes you just can’t win with a car. At some point you decide if it’s wiser to sell and, if nothing else, stop your losses & frustration.

All of this said, there are incompetent techs out there. If they are incompetent enough it is to the advantage of the shop management to send them to the unemployment line. If customers are unhappy the shop will loose business. No one has enough customers to be truly careless about this. But there are usually so many people involved in a car repair that not infrequently a problem will happen…. Without ranting further, that phenomena why new vehicle sales will go on forever….

In the end you pays your money and takes your chances.

Personally, for these reasons and a lot more, I’d never own a MB without it having a GOOD warranty….which is why when I bought my ’92 400e (3 weeks ago, and which is being transported from NY to Seattle as I write this) I paid extra for a 4 year 48K mile warranty.

Best of luck, try not to be pissed at the techs, it is their job, their livelihood, their source of income and usually pride you are questioning!

…Tracy