I just read about someone test driving a M3 and falling in love with it. Why cannot Benz make such awsome machines. Mercedes AMG is not keeping up with BMW ////M series. Why does Bimmer get more power out of their cars and Benz cannot? Why are those cars so much better in terms of perforamance? It hurts to say this but I jsut don't know why this is?

__________________
"Damn the torpedos, four bells full speed ahead"
-Admiral Farragut




-1987 300E Smoke Silver
-1997 S320 Black on Black
-Soon To be E55 AMG
-27 foot Grady White Offshore Sportfish.

Looks like they are trying to keep up with BMW performance. Take a good look at new AMG C320 due for release next year.
Almost all Magazines that test HP cars agree that the E55 vs the M5 is a toss-up. Want a std trans buy the "M", want an auto buy the Benz. The E46 BMW 3-series came out in 99 & the M3 is just now comming to market, so give MB a chance with this new c-class (supercharged).

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

Captain, there is no secret to getting more power per cubic inch engine displacement. The know how is to get adequate power and have the engine last 200,000 miles. If Benz wanted more power, they could tweak the cam(s), change the intake systewm and pump more fuel through the infecters, and now you would have a hot rod not a very high performing engine with long life and fair fuel economy.
So Captain, what ever sells Automobiles, that is what the sales staff tell marketing and manufacturing to build. I'll take my 120 mph sedan and enjoy. Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston, Donald!!!

Donald L. Swinford
Retired 20+ years,G.M. Engineering Dept.
1987 300E(got smart)
168,--- miles(still virgin engine)

Simple,

BMW is more performance minded than MB.

If you want a luxurios driver's car, get a Bimmer. If you want a driver's luxury car, get a Benz.

Don't forget, BMW and Benz have different philosophies. Bimmers have always been performance minded at heart. Mercs are more for quality and luxury.

Personally I prefer Mercs, but I wouldn't mind a new M3 or M5...or even an E30 M3

__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights

yhliem, it couldn't have been said better. I too have had the little road rockets, but past the 65 mark and I'm not meaning on the speedometer, I'll take the road rocking chair. Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston.

Donald L. Swinford
Retired 20+ yrs G.M. Engineering Staff
1987 300E(got smart) in service Jan.8,1988
168,820 miles

I jsut love my good old 300E. For the past week I have been driving my 95 Blazer, while he has been using my car to commute to work (becasue his 300SD is in the shop)Today I got my 300E back and I was so, so happy I got it back. The difference is simply amazing. I love my car. Its true that you don't really know what you have until you loose it. Well in my case I didn't have it for a week, and realize just how much I love my 300E.

__________________
"Damn the torpedos, four bells full speed ahead"
-Admiral Farragut




-1987 300E Smoke Silver
-1997 S320 Black on Black
-Soon To be E55 AMG
-27 foot Grady White Offshore Sportfish.

For starters the new M3 is not going to end up in every BMW owners driveway. It is not the base BMW model, it is a highly modified 3 series. When you're comparing similar models (3 series to C-Class) the mercedes comes out on top always. Also the new C-class AMG is going blow the doors off the M3. The only reason most people don't know this is because Mercedes is very modest in their advertising. BMW builds their whole reputation on these high end models (M3, M5) The car media goes nuts over them and they get advertised on TV all the time. When was the last time you saw a television comercial for an E55. Never. Mercedes builds it reputation on its standard models and provides the highly tuned AMG versions for those of its clients who are looking to blow away an M3 or M5, and they succeed. Don't get me wrong, BMWs are great cars, infact I would say they are second best. If there were no Mercedes I would be driving a BMW. Mercedes also engineers their cars to different standards. They are not necessarily concerned with squeezing everylast hp or ft/lb of torque from each cubic inch like BMW, so they make larger engines that are equally powerful (the new AMG C-class will have almost 40 more hp than the M3 I think).

__________________
Jason Priest
1999 E430
1995 E420 - retired
1986 420SEL - retired

CaptAlex300E, Just yesterday I drove my 89 year old Father in his 1988 Mekur Scorpio with only 48,000 miles. We drove on Interstate 45 here in Houston and aroung the neiborhood. HOW SWEET IT IS to drop him off at his apartment and bring that monster back to where I keep it for him and get into a DREAM car. I have to leave now, but later on I will quote an article about the 300E to all who are interested.

Same old Donald
Still retired
Driving my 1987 300E

It's true that you're not going to see an M3 in every driveway...that's what they said about 2 500Es and a 2.3-16 :p hehehe.

Yes, BMW does more advertising than MB, especially when it comes to the M series cars; however for the most part, as a driver's car, I'd still give the edge to BMW. Granted, MB has a more prestigious lineage than BMW, but the basic philosophy of the companies are different and there's no denying it.

Don't get me wrong, i'm a HUGE MB fan. This would explain the 5 that are sitting in the driveway right now, but BMW has always been about sport driving and MB has always been about quality and safety.

Compare the current M5 and the E55 head to head. This one has been done to death and every single review I've seen has the M5 on top, albeit by a slim margin. The number one reason is the transmission. The M5 comes with a 6-speed manual whereas the E55 comes with the driver adaptive 5-speed autobox.

There is no question that the 5-speed auto is a technical marvel (Jaguar even buys these from MB to use in their OWN cars) and most likely a better choice over any maual because there is NO way a human can shift faster tan a computer. BUT driving is all about the experience, and who wouldn't rather have a manual tranny to shift through the curves?

My point is that this is but one example of the difference in philosophy of the companies. Look at F1. The Ferrari is a technologically inferior car. This season's car could almost past for last season's car, whereas the McLaren-Mercedes is always significantly different from year to year. But Ferrari still wins it's share of races. Why is that? It's because while McLaren is technologically superior, Ferrari has more passion.

I'm not saying that this is the only reason, there are plenty of others, but the basic point is that when you compare MB and BMW, there are so many ways to compare them: strictly on preformance, on performance plus build quality, on overall quality, on only build quality, on driving pleasure, on the experience of ownership, on marque history, etc.

I just see the never ending MB vs Bimmer controversy and it's kinda funny. Sort of like buddy boy in the 740 or 750 that felt really proud of blowing away a 6 pot MB (I'm assuming he went against a 300) He's got as much right to brag as I would if had blown away a 318i in the 500E.

There's nothing wrong with healthy competition, but let's give credit where credit is due. When it gets to A is better than B PERIOD, with no room for variance, it can get dangerous.

Consider this little tidbit. MBs are almost exclusively offered and sold with automatic trannys. When, before this model year, was the last time you have seen a manual transmissioned MB in an MB catalogue? The last one I had seen wasthe 2.3-16. Why haven't they offered it before now? Because MB has always been seen as a luxury car on these shores and how many "luxury" cars require the driver to shift the tranny him/herself? It's all about marketing strategy. Who is their market?

Also consider the fact that almost EVERYTHING is an option in Europe. Here, 90% of the options are standard equipment: air con, sunroof, leather, power this, that and the next thing.

Furthermore, MB builds all kinds of trucks. Cargo vans, tractor/trailor rigs, unimogs (they're still building them BTW), G-wagens, etc. Why don't we see them offered here at the dealerships? Because North Americans either don't want to see MBs as an everyday, working vehicle, OR MB doesn't want North Americans to think of their product in those terms.

I like the comment about comparing the new M3 to the soon to be available C32. Ok, the C32 will probably "blow the doors off of the M3" But the C32 is also a supercharged angine...of COURSE it'll blow the doors off of the M3. If it didn't I'd take it back to the dealer, walk next door and buy an M3. Yes, the cars are sold in the same class, but can you compare them directly? I'm not sure. NA vs supercharged. Who do YOU think is going to be faster?

Basically, MB and BMW are very similar, yet very different companies, and there's enough room for both of them.

Sorry for the rant, just thought I'd throw in my $0.02


[Edited by yhliem on 12-09-2000 at 11:25 AM]

__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights