Sway Bars - required with upgrade? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BAd124 · #1 02-12-2005, 11:53 AM

Hi all,
I have searched many a thread about this topic but have not seen a decisive answer. I am planning to get Bilstein Sports with H&R OE Sport Springs. Right now everything suspension wise is stock. Should I do the sway bars now since I am going to be in there anyways (the rear at least, I know the front is easy) or is this something that can wait. I am not too concerned that the shocks and springs wont make enough difference, but that this may only doing 2/3 of the correct job. Anyone out there done these mods with or without the sway bars?

Something needs to be done because the way it is now the handling at the limit makes ya want to

from the body roll

daveCT · #2 02-12-2005, 01:02 PM

yup the 300E rolls alot,, you will need a 400E or 500E front and rear bars to stiffen it up .. they bolt right in

ksing44 · #3 02-13-2005, 08:54 AM

I did it without the bars. It handles much better, but I am still planning to get big bars too. It will cost more to do it later, so it would be great to do it all at one time. If you don’t have the money right now, however, you can certainly do it later. I think you will still be very impressed with the improved handling from springs and shocks.

You may already know this, but the biggest OEM bars for your 6-cylinder 300E are the “limo” front and E500 rear bars. These are affectionately referred to as “Sportline Plus” swaybars. A very knowledgeable guy, “gsxr” has a spreasheet that has all of the sizes and part numbers for the bars and bushings.

My E320 does not have bars YET, but this spring is the time.

BAd124 · #4 02-13-2005, 11:35 AM

Thanks ksing,
Thats exactly the response I was looking for. I guess the real question is just whether I was to spend the money on the bars now. Any idea about prices ?

ksing44 · #5 02-13-2005, 06:54 PM

More information in case you don’t know already.

Eibach vs. E500 swaybars for W124

Suspension Upgrade On My 300E

OEM Camber Adjustment and Tire Wear?

ke6dcj · #6 02-14-2005, 02:55 PM

IMHO, the "limo" front-bar plus a 500E rear sway is too much understeer.

If you want a better balanced feeling, try Sportline or 500E front swaybar, and 500E rear swaybar.

Don't foget to get new SportLine bushings as well.

BTW: I'm thinking about about selling my front 500E or front "limo" bar . . .

:-) neil

ksing44 · #7 02-14-2005, 03:47 PM

I saw someone else that has a similar impression of the W124 handling. I think he prefers the E500 rear bar with a standard front bar. I think he likes to do donuts and power slides on a dirt track.

My understanding is that, for most normal novice drivers, understeer is a safer situation than oversteer. For a more experienced driver, I suppose oversteer gives more control over everything that is going on with the car. Even though I like to think of myself as an experienced driver

, I am certainly not a racecar driver and I am probably better off with the safer understeer situation.

I have also been thinking that it might be best to get a matched set of bars, rather than trying to figure it out myself. In that regard, the matched E500 bars or the matched Sportline bars, might be the best choice for me.

ke6dcj · #8 02-14-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksing44

I have also been thinking that it might be best to get a matched set of bars, rather than trying to figure it out myself. In that regard, the matched E500 bars or the matched Sportline bars, might be the best choice for me.

Yes, matched sets are best. If you don't have self-levelling and 500E front struts, I'd go with matched SportLine myself.

:-) neil

Yury · #9 02-20-2005, 06:01 PM

I ma selling my E420 front swar bat in anyone is interested.

For sale: E420 W124 Sway Bar

Yury

samiam4 · #10 02-24-2005, 09:12 PM

gsxr,

I'm more confused- what is the most balanced- the limo bar/500E combo. I noticed all MB's came in later years with 22mm rear bars.

Oh, your spreadsheet is actually wrong=) The 86's came with 16.5 mm front bars until -well the service CD says they switched at somepoint in 86?87.

I'll get some new pricing tomorrow from my dealership buddues. The local dealer alignment guy told me he would install the bars for his cost plus $100 cash money on a Saturday.

Me whom always does his own work is being swayed... no pun intended!

Michael

ksing44 · #11 02-25-2005, 05:05 AM

[QUOTE=samiam4
The local dealer alignment guy told me he would install the bars for his cost plus $100 cash money on a Saturday.
[/QUOTE]

I am getting ready to do a swaybar upgrade. Just to get started, I called the local dealer and they quoted me $216.00 US for the “limo” front bar, $225.00 US for the E500 rear bar and $640.00 US for the install. For the limo front bar, they told me they would have to order it from Germany, that I would have to prepay, and that the bar could not be returned. I did not get prices for the bushings and I have not yet checked other sources for the bars or other shops for better pricing on the install.

ksing44 · #12 02-25-2005, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam4

I'm more confused- what is the most balanced- the limo bar/500E combo.

Looking at all the numbers on gsxr’s spreadsheet, it looks like the “Sportline Plus” combination of limo front and E500 rear would be a balanced combination. Compared to the traditional Sportline set-up, the “Plus” set-up is only 1mm larger in front and it is 1.5mm larger in the rear. Based on MY VERY LIMITED UNDERSTANDING, that should provide “balance” similar to the highly engineered Sportline set-up with maybe just a very subtle decrease in understeer.

gsxr · #13 02-25-2005, 01:37 PM

The factory setups have understeer designed in, which is safer for most of the public. Serious performance drivers (like Neil) often want a more balanced feel, which requires either a larger rear bar, a smaller front bar, or some variations in tire size/pressure/alignment to make the rear end less planted. The 500E front bar is less stiff than the 'limo' front bar, I think, based on other's observations - I'd estimate it's between the limo and standard Sportline - due to the shape. Note that you can not use a 6cyl bar on a V8 car, period. If you have a 6-cyl car and want a more balanced setup, there is another option... the 20mm rear H&R bar for a W210 is supposed to bolt on. I have not tried this personally. I have the 'Plus' setup of limo front and 500E rear on my car and I like the flatter handling, but I don't push the car that hard that often to complain about understeer. In general I'd recommend the standard Sportline, or the limo front & 500E rear 'Plus' setup. Hardcore racers may want/need a variation of this, such as Sportline front with 500E rear, or limo front with H&R rear (on a 6cyl). The V8 models are an entirely different discussion which I won't go into, to avoid further confusion.

Michael - I'm slightly confused, the 86 should have a 26.5mm front bar, same as the 87-up. Note that the service CD shows worldwide info and the USA doesn't always get what the ROW does, nor at the same time. The 'change' may have happened before any USA models arrived here. My spreadsheet info is based on the EPC, and there were a couple of part number rolls, meaning certain stock bars may be slightly different than what my spreadsheet would otherwise indicate. This would be relatively rare though. The station wagons have slightly different original bars, and the EPC shows a 27.5mm as the standard replacement front bar. (I believe the Euro wagons with Sportline option received the 28.5mm 'limo' front bar.)

My hosting service just did a server 'upgrade' which means you can no longer see the directory contents, so my 'website' is presently 'broken'! I attached the PDF files to the forum (see below).

samiam4 · #14 02-25-2005, 07:23 PM

Thanks GSXR,

I've heard the H&R W210 rear bar rummor before- but never confirmed if anybody has actually done it!

I priced the bars today and my dealership buddy was off. The list price qoute are 20% higher than gsxr's spreadsheet which lines up well with "MBUSA list" and "Wholesale".

I'll bet the W210 bar is cheaper than a 500E bar for the rear, so I'll probably order one or the other combo when Randy Steele gets back to work. No rush on bars...

For the 86' model difference- I'd have to dig in the cd again. Maybe the bar thickness in the taper was smaller. Anyway- an 86' is pretty small bars by today's standards. IF you know somebody can confirm the W210 bars- let me know...

Still got to tune the car and go through the yearly emission test(ahhh Fun).

Michael

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