Has anybody actually done the rear diff swap on 400E/E420 (without ASR)? Which diff was used? Out of which model? What was the cost? What were the results? And I know I've searched the issue and there was a long discussion re 2.82's and 3.xx's out of 300SL??? And I'll be damned if I can now find it using the search feature. Also, my E420 does NOT have ASR, so I guess I'm screwed on the 500E diff. Any suggestions? Thanks, all. --Mitch

Mitch,

The title of the message is 'Shorter gears for a 94 E420' posted 7/7/99 in Performance Paddock.

I have asked the same questions as you but have not gotten any reply. I have looked at the AMG and RennTECH diff upgrade as well as possibly one out of a wrecked 300 SL ???, but I want to get some feedback from someone that has ACTUALLY done the upgrade.

In the other message, MB DOC said that some 124 cars with the M104 engine used a similar rear diff as a 400e, but with a shorter gear ratio, 2.65:1. He also says that a 1994+ Euro 300SL 5speed has the same diff housing part number, but there have been no follow ups with any real details.

Lets hope someone can shine some light on this subject. If I can get a parts list on what is needed, I will order it and have it installed and report back.

-David

THAT is the research I recall--Thanks. 2.65 sounds like it'd be just about right, too! More acceleration, but not winding out too high at higher speeds. By the way, how's the garlic crop this year (recently transplanted Californian)?

Mitch,

It is as strong as ever, the smell that is. :-)

I was thinking more about the 2.82:1 ratio. This is what RennTECH recommended when I contacted them for some info.

They are charging close to $3K for the diff conversion!!! I really hope there is an existing diff from another MB that can act as a donor. I'm sure there is a simple bolt on solution.

-David

FELLOW 400E OWNERS:
As a recent purchaser of a 400E, I also am planning to install a different rear into my non-ASR car. A few years ago when I built my 190/5.0 I wanted a ltd/slip diff with a low ratio and installed one from a 92 Corvette ZR-1. It has been worry-free ever since for about 4 1/2 yrs now. On my 400E I'm planning on installing a Ford 8.8 differential used in the 89 up T'bird and Cougar, Lincoln LS VIII and now the new Mustang Cobra, as these all use a ind. rear suspension. The 8.8" rear is very common (low salvage price) and gears can be substituted reasonably and many ratios are available.
To do mine, I'm going to use a 300E,TE rear subframe and modify it completely before installing, thereby saving all the original parts for reuse if necessary. Only the diff is used, no more, as the rest was custom made. Special output yokes with CV flanges for special length axles shafts, instead of the Spicer yokes and axles I'm using now, will probably be used.
I bought my car at a salvage sale and am having a roof (no S/R) installed now. I have the 3:08 differential so I'll be starting soon as the car is also worked on at a body shop. As soon as things start to come together, I'll post, or send me an email for info. on clearances, other mods, etc.

Tobias MB
300CE, C280Sport, 400E, 190/5.0

TobiasMB,

Thanks for the info. I am moving to Raleigh, NC next week. Depending on how your Ford custom diff works out, I might just do the same. Are you doing the work or do you have a good independent MB shop?

Keep us all posted. It seems like there are more and more 400E/E420s performance postings here. I attribute that to the reasonable cost of a well maintained 400E/E420 and the AWESOME performance.

-David

David,
All the conversion work is done by me because if I had to pay someone to do it, I couldn't afford it! I've been doing this kind of hobby all my life starting in high school when I drove a Model A Ford with an Olds in it, channeled and unchopped five window coupe. And yes, I built the 190 with the Ford off-road crate motor, 5 speed and Vette differential. I'm now 50++.

While my damaged 400E is in the body shop, I'm also toying with using the front fender flares on the rear since they are larger and the same shape/outline. Should look like 1/2 a 500E!

Keep in touch and email me if you ever plan to get to Charlotte.

Tobias MB
C280Sport, 300CE, 400E, 190/5.0

TobiasMB
Hi- Its the same guy who had the 5.0 190E project car a while back... I changed it to a 380 Euro motor. Added 420/560 throttle body so should be pretty quick. We are in the final steps- radiator, exhaust, and was wondering about the corvette rear end in your 190 5.0. Did you have to do some major custom work or was it easy. Also do you think a 300E diff would work? Any other suggestions would be great too- (radiator esp.)

Thanks- Mike
500SEC Euro
190E 3.8L

Reply to the Vette rear etc:
I dropped the rear subframe out of the car complete and placed it on a large workbench.
Then did the measuring of the pinion snout etc to retain the proper angles for driveshaft geometry. Next, removed the differential and calculated how/where to mount the vette diff. Made a new rear cover from 1/4" steel and fabricated mounts on it.
Then cut the original subframe, but not all the way, to mount a new panel in the middle where the rear of the diff will mount and tack welded it in. Rechecked all dimensions and cut out the remaining of the original section proceeding to finish welding the new section in. Had to mill about 2" off the top of the pinion snout so as to fit it properly to the front of the subframe. The rest sort of fell into place. The axles are spicer joint as the vette's are and sliding splines are used for length changes. Each axle is the same as a driveshaft in a one ton truck!
STOUT!! NO cutting or body shaping was done to the body nor was there a rear alignment done as the hubs and control links were never removed. Most vette diffs come as 3:08 or 3:42 depending on tranny. To change it is expensive/time consuming for setup.
As to the exhaust, I bought a few 3" mandrel bends and some straight pipe and with the use of a bandsaw, cut and welded 19 joints for a free flow 3" system.
The radiator used is a 3-pass, serpentine unit made by Fluidyne, cost about $400. They are located in Cal and here in NC, where I dealt with dimensions etc. Beautiful work.

Good luck...
Tobias MB
C280Sport, 300CE, 400E, 190/5.0

I have changed the 2.24 rear gears in my 93
400e to 3.07's from a 450SL. What would you
like to know.
Stu

Stu: I assume that neither your 400E nor the 450SL had ASR--is that correct? Also, what year 450SL did you use (or does it make a difference)? Did the housing from the 450SL fit also or did you use another? What was the total cost of the job, approx. (parts and labor)? How did it affect performance? 0-60? top end speed? What if anything did you have to do to the computer chip? Have you done any other mods to it? Thanks for your input. --Mitch

You might want to check some '94/'95
E320's .
I have one and the gearing is 2:65

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MitchLampson:
[B]Stu: I assume that neither your 400E nor the 450SL had ASR--is that correct?

That is correct.

Also, what year 450SL did you use (or does it make a difference)?

It doesn't matter. They are all 3.06 or 3.07.

Did the housing from the 450SL fit also or did you use another?

No. You have to transfer the parts. I machined the pinion to accept the ABS stator
as the 3.07 never came with ABS and I set it
up in the 124 differential case.

What was the total cost of the job, approx. (parts and labor)?

Hard to say. I own(ed) a Mercedes shop and also owned all of the differential measuring
tools. On those rear ends we have changed the
price usually is around $2,000 gear set included.

How did it affect performance? 0-60?

Prior to changing with the 2.24's my car 0-60
measured 9.3 seconds...In Denver, Colorado.
With the gearing change I measure 7.1 seconds.

top end speed?

It should be the same as the 450SL with 3.07
which is about 136mph.

What if anything did you have to do to the computer chip? Have you done any other mods to it? Thanks for your input.

500e sway bars, 16x8" wheels with 215/55/16's
and teflon/stainless brake lines.

Stu

Wow 9 seconds thats slow. but 7.1 is good have you ever tested it in a lower altitude?
Sounds like a great set up.

------------------
-1999 ML320
-1995 E320
-1994 E420 (lowered 1.5 in useing Eibach)
-1980 300D
-Had 1985 300TD Wagon (for over 10 yrs)
-Had 1993 190E 2.3

Ritter, nice to hear from someone who's actually done the swap! I've got a few questions of my own: what rpm does the car run at while on the freeway, at say... 60mph? What speeds have the shift points moved to, and does it affect normal driving? And lastly, are you happy with the conversion/was the swap worth the expense and fuel economy tradeoffs?

thanks a bunch,
Dr. Julio Fuentes
1995 Mercedes Benz E420