190e vs. 300e

I'm contemplating a newer mbz; either a 90'+ 190e 2.6 or a 87'+ 300e with a budget of about $10k, and have a few questions. I currently drive an 83 2.3 190e and love the car except for the lack of power, but is the perfect balance of comfort and size (I live at the beach and parking is a premium). With this in mind the clear winner should be the 190 2.6 but I havent seen any massaged over like the buetiful 300e sportlines on this bourd like BZP's w/the OEM mods.
Is the 190e 2.6 a good platform for this:
discreet lowering 1/2"-1"
upgraded brakes (400e)
AMG wheels 17's
OEM regear for the rear diff (quiker off line w/o losing comfortable freeway cruising)
All in all I don't want to stray from OEM if possible while not torching anything for fit. Can this be done on this platform, or should I go w/the 300e sportline? Any and all comment or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Wayne

[Dan16V]

Wayne,

It looks like you're looking for a sporty car. I think a 190E 2.3-16V would fit the bill, especially since you like your 8V. It is faster than the 2.6 and 300E and has a tuned suspension which includes a rear self-leveling system. It also has 300E brakes. You can easily lower it with Eibachs or H&Rs and rims are a piece of cake.
You can easily do all the mods you mentioned to a 2.6, but a stock 16V has a lot of those built in.
Check out http://mb190.tripod.com for lots of cool 190s.

Later,

Of course the newest 2.3-16s are fourteen (almost 15) years old and the self-levelling suspension is probably dead (if it hasn't been replaced already).

Go 2.6. I have a 1993 and it's solid, dependable, and pretty quick, but you have to use the auto like a stick and make sure you get it up on the cams to make it perform (think north of 3600rpm).

The good thing about this engine: will pull to redline and pulls pretty good to 100mph and just over. Bad thing - 19-24mpg depending on how heavy your (right) foot is.

I hear that they don't feel nearly as nimble as the 2.3 due to the increased weight on the front end. If you want nimble though, buy a BMW. They're simply more fun to drive.

You've also got the interior size thing to think about. 2.6 is same as your current ride. 300 feels pretty damn spacious by camparison. Ultimately, the thing that's going to driveme out of my 190 is that I'm tired of being in a small car. i do not, however, have parking considerations and after a stint living in SF I can empathize...

Dan & Makako

About the 16v, Not to offend, but aesthetically i donn't care for them -too raced out looking, I like the mellow 90+ cosmetics, w/some rims and mild suspension-. Also, I like auto and a bigger motor (6cylinder,AC and electrical run better), not that I'm dismissing the performance of the 16v, but if that was the type of car I was after I'd slap a Dinan supercharger on a 318i. I think I'll go for the 190 2.6 and fit the sportline package, when and if the motor fails i'll bump the displacement. Can anyone point me to someone w/a 2.6 sportline for reference?

Thanks again to the both of you, and Dan checked out your ride on that page, very nice, but not quite what I'm looking for -old age, just turned 30-
Thanks again guys

[Robby Ackerman]

Before you discount the 16V you should drive one. Its more fun than the new CLK430.

Robby

[bobbyv]

i have a 190e2.6 and am quite satisfied with it (especially because it has a 5spd manual). But whenever i bring along friends in the backseat, i am reminded of the interior space limitations of the car.

the trunk of the 124 has a low-liftover access, unlike the 201, which makes loading the trunk easier.

i believe that overall, the 124-series is more refined and better-built, because it came after the 201. The 5-link rear suspension for example first appeared on the 201 and it is plausible that the 124 received enhancements or refinements after the 201 experience. Of course the later versions of the 201 (up to '93) should also have received these enhancements.

the 124 should be better on the highway, with its longer wheelbase and higher mass. The 201 does not have the best of aerodynamics, and there is substantial wind noise at the A-pillars at speed. But it is quite stable for such a small car.

the larger size of the 124 also makes it a safer car (e.g., longer crash zones)

my 201 fits me fine at the moment, as a personal sedan, with the rear seats unoccupied most of the time by passengers. And i am amazed by how much other people still notice the car, especially since it is now 12yrs old, which i have to explain to them.

my ideal 201 would be a '93 Sportline with a 5spd manual. If i would consider a 124, it would be the 400e/E420.

[Chiragp]

No Offense. I might be selling my 93 190E 2.6, but its a hell of a car. And the money I have spent in my car is incredible. This little upgrade hear, this little preventive maintenance here, its all worth it. I agree, if you want nimble, go more on to the 92+ BMWs, but I agree. The 93 190E 2.6 is quick, especailly north of 3600. I have kept up with 5.0 Mustangs (stock off course) on the interstate, because German engineering at 80mph+ will kick some 5.0 Mustang's from the 80's ass. Don't try racing htem off the line, they will win.

The only thing I want to do, is get more power. And I have contemplated adding an m104 3.0 I-6 into it. But the economics just don't work. I love my car, cause its a sleeper, no COP expects it to be moving as fast as it does. And I agree, drive it like an auto stick. ITs made for it. You'll be doing 60, drop it in 3rd, and it takes off. Now if you could find one in a stick, I'll trade mine in anyday.

Good Luck.

I believe that for street driving the six is better, more mid range torque where you can use it. Also, it's not a high spirited, more expensive engine to maintain. If you want a firmer handling suspension, it doesn't take much to modify the suspension.

My $0.02,

The 190 of whatever config was such a looser M/B dropped it.
No matter what modifications you make, you still have a sows ear, not a silk purse.
I think is is a 230 now.
Inquire at the dealerships mechanics and get the real story.
All we hear is, if I lower it or different springs, etc etc etc.
The 300E was voted the best used car buy for the past 15 years. Every year.
If you want spark ignition and don't want to spend the sheckels for a 500E, wise up and get a W124030.
As Larry said, here is my $0.02 worth.
13 years on the road.
171,200 miles.
Engine and tranny still virgin.
Let's see a 185 1/2 do that.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston
Donald, El Cheapo

[Edited by Donald L. Swinford on 02-13-2001 at 07:29 PM]

Swillford - the 190 became the C-class. It happened right about the time the E-class was totally redesigned as well.

I agree though - ask an experienced mercedes tech about the longevity of the 2.6 190 and you'll undoubtedly hear that it's a great engine, it's very long-lived (esp 1990+ versions) and regularly runs well over 200k miles - virgin.

Aside from that, it shares about 90% of it's materials and almost all mechanicals with that 15-year winner - the 300E.

I think it's really a matter of size.

Bobbyv,

Were on the same page,
Even w/worn paint and hole burning a into the hood from the exh. manifold, people always compliment the car and almost pass out when I tell them I paid $2.5k cash for it! I've got a van and truck for surfing and camping I just want a nice grocery getting/date to the movies car -no foreseen family in the future-. Then my roommate steps in (MBZ dealer mechanic) and say the 300e is SOOO much more car for the same money -this is why I'm on the fence-. If i were to go bigger (300e) should'nt I just drop the extra $2-4k and get the 400E and forget the mod$$? Bottom line I don't think MBZ ever produced a sows ear, it's just a ***** triing to figure the best way to upgrade.
Thanks again, I've been learning a great deal from you all, keep the opinions coming

[Chiragp]

The 2.6 m103 and 3.0 m103 engines are almost the exact same besides displacment. The are off the same design and such forth. As far as the difference in the w201 platform and the w124s, well both are great. If you like the size of your car, and don't need anything bigger, then its a perfect fit. The 300E are a little bigger, heavier, and well does have more power, but its about the same. I would rather prefer a newer 190E then an older 300E if I didn't need the size of a 300E.

Also, the w124 was basically a replacement for the w123s and based off the w201 platform (from what I hear.) Also, the C-class was an almost new up design, which signifies the new naming process of "classes" which eventually came to the E-class w124, and later w210s.

Sorry, when we bought out 190E from the dealer in 93, we tested both and just loved the feel of the 190E, and it was adequate sized for us. Great Daily driver, and was more involved then the 300E.

Don't get me wrong, its just I rather buy a 93 190E then an 89 300E.

Its all preference.

[SHYNE]

1989 plus 190E's have the lower body side molding so your safe with the 1990+ 190E. I have a 1991 190E 2.6 and love it to death. It sounds great on cam with the windows down!

The 1986-1990 300E's look like junk without the lower bodyside cladding. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to you and themselves.

Good luck with your purchase!!!
Mike McKinney

The real benefit of a 1990+ 2.6 OR 3.0 is that mercedes worked out the leaky valve guide/seal problem that was endemic to the pre-1990 engines. Personally, I think the 3.0 is much more motor than the 2.6, even in the substatially heavier E body. It's faster across the spectrum and will pull to a higher final speed. Of course were talking differences of tenths of seconds and 128 v. 140mph, but the 300 does go faster. But with a handling penalty (mass/size). Around town, the 2.6 is plenty zippy, easy to squirt around traffic, easy to park and easy on the wallet. The 300 is completely livable in the same environment though much bigger and probably a much more comfortable car for long-distance touring. As everyone else has said - it pretty much depends on which you like better and how much of a premium you place on size.

This really brought the sleepers from the closet.
The 190 has to be the younger owners hot-rod; one they tinker and modify to their hearts content.
The 300E is my old mans rocking chair that when I want can still kick up His heals.
The fact remains the W124030 was one of M/B's masterpieces.
Let's put all opinions aside and just look at the facts.
I THINK the W124030 is the best.
Swillford the only one who IS NOT opinionated thinks the same.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston
Donald, El Cheapo(the reason I drive a 300E)