I'm not trying to sway you away from the citreon fw but the aluminum fw seems ok to me. They used them in some pretty powerful street porsches. I don't see how you can have too light in a high performance car. Heavier fw just gives smoother idle and slows down your ability to shift quickly since it keeps the engine from accelerating or decellerating as quickly.

Probably cheaper though to modify an existing fw than making one from scratch. since its steel if necessary you could even weld all the holes over and completely redrill them for mounting to the crank.

Good luck.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I read somewhere, on a M5 board, that the gearbox or engine becomes very noisy, with a light flywheel. Noisy is usually not good I think.

The Citroen flywheel is, very rough estimate, HALF the weight of the original dual mass E39 M5 flywheel.
In a while I'll compare it with a MB V8 torque converter, but probably the Citroen fw is still lighter than that.

hopefully sometime this summer i will yank the 4.2 out of the 126 and at least put it into storage....
havent read anymore from anyone doing this swap into the 190e.....

__________________
OHB Tuning
Custom fabrication of performance parts for your Mercedes, VW, BMW,
Audi.
U.S. domestic and foreign vehicle repair and maintenance.
Powder coating, Anodizing, TIG welding, CNC machining services.
IM: OHBenz

What engine is lighter - the M119 32v or the older (forget number) V8 from the W126?

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190E's:
2.5-16v 1990 90,000m Astral Silver
2.0E 8v 1986 107,000m Black 2nd owner
http://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall.jpghttp://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall2.jpg

im pretty sure the W126 is aluminum

__________________
OHB Tuning
Custom fabrication of performance parts for your Mercedes, VW, BMW,
Audi.
U.S. domestic and foreign vehicle repair and maintenance.
Powder coating, Anodizing, TIG welding, CNC machining services.
IM: OHBenz

M117 weighs 452 pounds, no accessories
1980 3.0 Porsche engine ready to install weighed 472 lbs
GM LS6 weights 434 pounds, all accessories (and is the same size as an M117, with nearly double the HP).
Engine pounds (ref) comments
Mercedes SOHC V8 alum. 452 (2)
Mercedes SOHC V8 iron 540 (2)
Mercedes 5.6L V8 467 (57) 1987
Mercedes OM 615 Diesel 447 (16)
Mercedes M291 flat-12 374 (66) with starter, alt, exh, no clutch
Mercedes 2.8/4.2 V6 331 (127) 1997, SOHC 3V, "shipped for assembly"
Mercedes inline six 441 (127) 1995 and back
Mercedes 3.2L V6 330 (141) 1997 SOHC, 90 deg, 3 valve
Mercedes 5.8L V12 490 (143) 1997, 3 valve

__________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
FrankenBenz: '87 560SEC with an '02 cammed LS6 and custom 4L60E.
Bling: '87 560SEC, ported/polished, lowered
Lisa: '87 560SEL, lowered

It has been a year and a half. Is this project held up over a custom made flywheel? There should be many people available to build a custom made flywheel. Can it be drawn.

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To see my 129 parts for sale visit:
http://stores.ebay.com/The-Mercedes-SL-Store
John Roncallo

Well, very interesting thread, perhaps I can help to clear something.

-The M116 (350) was from the factory fitted with 4-speed manual or the 76/27 A5 5-speed option. it is a very rare beast but I have one on my 280 SE 3.5 Coupe.
- The M117 never had manual tranny but there where several AMG/Laufer conversions (450 SE/SLC) to Getrag 265 with the M116 clutch and flywheel.
- If you want to go up to M117 with 5liters the only with nearly the sam pattern is that one from the 450 SLC 5.0 (1800 units).
-If you want more than (560) you have to make a new motor-endplate.
-Fitting a M119 is more difficult, there is a carlsoon 500 E with Porsche-tranny, the Renntech 500 E with 6-speed. I think which type of tranny dipends where you live. In Europe a BMW 540/M5 is a good deal, in USA I think the Tremec (Mustang ) unit is perfekt for the jop. In any case the 3.5 flywheel fits on the crank and the endplate had to be made for this combination.

Next problem: M119 is KE-jetronik (first) or LH-Jetronik later, perhaps a megasquirt or VEMS would be easier than adpting the whole eletronic in a 190E.

Pagodino

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I' ve done some research. The easiest way to fit M117 and M119 (one bold difference) is to use the bellhousing auf the M119 E420/50 W210 automatic bellousing wich is separable from the rest. Then use a M116 350 flywhell (240 mm cluch like the M5/M3) turn it down at the outer side to fit the starter rim of the M119 and sensorplate if it is from 500 E or E50. If it is KE-jet use the normal 350 flywheel. This mix will fit wiht the Getrag 265 in the easiest way.

Pagodino

Pagodino, you should also follow this discussion here:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-performance-paddock/271090-non-mb-trans-mb-engines-post2432485.html?posted=1#post2432485

Hey guys, the project is not over. I turned it over to the very capable hands of Jono and Blueridge MB in ATL. Motor was pulled again and built again, and last I heard, he was waiting to get it back into the car. Will post updates as I have them

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

So, Did any of these projects ever get completed? I'm thinking about doing some kind of a conversion into my 190e 2.6

I spoke to David at SPEC clutch about making a flywheel and clutch setup when I was going to convert my 400E to a five speed. He said he could do it but then I ended up buying a c55 as a daily driver. Still have the 400E and it is for sale....very rare as it does NOT have a sunroof, great for tall drivers!

Also for sale is my Ford powered 190 track car. This has a 4 bolt block, bored and stroked to 354", 450hp/410 torque with a Tremec TKO3550 behind it going back to a Ford Tbird 8.8 IRS differential. The diff is mounted in the original rear subframe with aluminum links and heims and original hubs with custom axles, no CV joints!

Brakes are 4 piston calipers all around with 13X1.25 rotors front and 12X1.25 rear and still retain the OE Ebrake setup. The car weighs just over 3k and balance is 47/53% or the same as a C43. Wheels are Corvette aluminum 9.5 X17" using 275/40-17 Hoosiers. The diff has a torsen style (gears) limited slip in it. This car is built for reliability and all the bugs are out of it.

The only reason it is now up for sale is a new car will be used next year onward. I've won the NASA-SE TTR division for the last five years straight. The asking price is $14,000 and is located in Charlotte, NC. Contact me for more information.

I was going to start working on the 190 a year or so ago, but got a CLS550, and that kind of put a stop to it until now. Haha.

Was the 400e a v8 car? It sounds like it ought to have been. If I lived in NC, (I live in Texas) I would come look at it.

You say the track car has a stroked 354 in it. Was it a 302 originally? Sounds like a stout car (But sadly I'm not a fan of fords.. More a Chevy/Dodge guy)

I'm probably going to be beaten by the MB purists, but what I was thinking about putting into the 190 was a 235 HP 273 out of a 68 dart. Probably would require a hell of a lot of work, though. I just want to build something different, because... Have you ever seen a 273 in a 190?

The 400E is a 275hp 4.2L V8 with a long gear of 2.24 but also have a 500SL diff for it with a 2.65 ratio. The car is all black (cladding also) grey leather interior and has various things done to it as h/l wipers removed for vented panels to air cleaner. The wheels are Racing Dynamics (England) and are 7X17 with 225/45-17 GS/D3/F1 Good Year tires. Transmission rebuilt in 2007 and has about 160k miles on it.

The Ford engine was used for three reasons in the 190. 1. SBF lighter than a SBC. 2. Distributor in front allowing for more engine setback. 3. The 201 chassis is designed for a front sump engine which a SBF is. My pan is extended to hold 7.5 qts, and also utilizes an Accusump system. The car uses the original PS pump that was on the 2.2 diesel engine but is now hooked up to a VW steering rack.....OE box too big and bulky only allowing for left hand turns!
Yes the block was a 302" but from Ford Motorsport which allows it to be bored more: .060 vs .030 oversize. It weighs about 60 pounds more than an OE block because of the extra beef, larger main caps and nickel in it. The cam also rides in needle bearings and the valley is all polished with bronze guides in the lifter bores. It was a former TransAm block....704hp!

Any other questions.....just ask.