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  #1  
Old 06-20-2006, 08:34 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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racing slicks for autocrossing

last saturday i attended an autocross by the mbca club, 500 chapter (INDY). i took my 500sec. i had a lot of fun and beat some bigger s classes but got beat by a lot of smaller more nimble cars.

i need new brake pads and i am thinking of buying some hoosier racing slicks. anyone have any recommendaitons for me?

i can get some 205/50r14s on closeout from hoosier for about $100 ea. any comments? these will fit my 500, my 300cd, my 280e euro and my 350sdl i think. i would mount on 14" steel wheels i have in stock i think.

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2006, 10:45 AM
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Tom,

I don't think slicks will make your car keep up with C-class sport coupes and SLKs. I have the same problem; I like to autocross my E420 and it's just too heavy and doesn't have a sport suspension. I can't keep up with the little guys. I bought some Goodyear Eagle F1-GS3 (?) tires and they are better then my old all-season michelins, but tires are not enough.

If you really want to autocross with the big dogs then you should probably get the appropriate car. That's what I'm doing whenever I trade in my E420. If you fit with a helmet on your head (required by our MBCA section for autocross), the "cheapest" sport MB available might be an old C36 AMG. Those should do well in autocrosses. Maybe an original SLK230 Kompressor with a sport package?
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2006, 01:39 PM
Jim's500E's Avatar
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Well, Hoosiers makes racing AND auto-x tires. Make sure you get the right compound. A racing tire will not heat up quick enough in an auto-x to be effective as compared to the purposely softer auto-x compounds. Vice-versa an auto-x specific tire will heat up to fast and suck in a higher speed track environment.

Remember with 'competetion tires' it will put you into a different class....most likely a tougher class to be competetive in with that car. And even with slicks...you probably are not going to keep up with any of the 'smaller cars'. As for brakes...they aren't so critical in auto-xes, some folks (like me) might say not to use them at all if possible while on course. Spend your money elsewhere....like lowering springs, sportier shocks, upgraded sway bars and bushings, etc..

Take a look at Falkens ST-615s which are high performance tires with very stiff sidewall characteristics. They will keep you in a street tire class. Also a favorite tire among the SCCA Solo I crowd in the STS classes. Just don't drive them in the rain ! Just my 2 cents ...and over 100 auto-xes under me belt.
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2006, 07:41 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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well this one had only one class. it was a local indianapolis mb club. the fast time was posted by a 600 coupe with hoosier slicks. second fast time was a lambo gallardo (i dont see how he saw out of that thing) third was an 560 sl amg. then some other cars way more capable than mine. the course had a place you could hit 60 or so then had to brake down hard for a 180 degree turn. the guy with the winning time layed it out i think so maybe he tailored it for his car.

so maybe if i am going to do some i should go with the falkens. how do they stick compared to the hoosier autocross tires? my micheling m+s tires?

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2006, 08:17 PM
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Cool Looking for MBZ time trails in Los angeles?

If I might chime in on your conversation . I live in Los Angeles, The Los Angeles section chapter of the Mercedes-Benz club America used to use the lot at TRW with the Jaguar club. We had time trails and had a good time. The 190-16 valves were fast with this course.
I would like to do this again I have a 300-E sportline all I need are tires and wheels . Is their a place in Los Angeles with any of the Mercedes-Benz chapters who does this anymore?
Thank You
Bob Geco
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  #6  
Old 06-25-2006, 08:38 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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i just looked at the hoosier site again and the tires are 225/50/14. can i run those on my 14" sec rims? i think they are either 7.5 or 8" wide rims.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #7  
Old 07-06-2006, 09:14 AM
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I compete in SCCA Solo II (aka, auto-x), in F-Stock with our W124-500E, and in SuperStock in a RX7 twin-turbo 3rd gen.

Per SCCA, stock classes can run race-compound tires.

There are two favorites auto-x tires:

Kumho 710 and Hoosier A006, with the Hoosier's being more expensive.

Now you could install a set of FOUR sport springs, and a set of FOUR sport shocks/dampeners, however, the car will still understeer.

Because the Benz understeers alot, you could make the car more "neutral" by doing any of the following:

1) install R-compound tires upfront (more traction up-front);
2) install a bigger rear-sway bar (does the SEL use a bigger rear sway-bar);
3) install stiffer springs in the rear (perhaps from a SLS version of your chassis);
4) install more air-pressure in the rear-tires, and/or less air-pressure on the front-tires

Any or these will make the rear give up traction sooner than normal. In autox, you want to be able to predictably swing the rear out.

Doing all three esp. with adjustable camber arms in the rear can cause a high-hp or high-torque Benz to power oversteer.

Just remember, that this setup is NOT daily-driver friendly, esp. if your significant other is not used to power oversteer. . .

:-) neil
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  #8  
Old 07-06-2006, 05:02 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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thanks, neil.

i found with my sec that at the last xcross in one of the turns i got the tail light and could have easily spun it if i had given gas at that time. maybe the sec is a little better balanced than the sedan.

i just ordered the hoosier slicks size 225/50r14. one of the guys from the scca which is sponsering one this weekend at crown point said he thought the slicks will not change my class. hs i think. my car prob will be the biggest and heaviest in the class so prob nobody will care.

thanks for the input. i might have it aligned later for a little neg camber. otherwise i will prob just tinker with air pressure. i will take along an air tank and guage.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2006, 05:07 PM
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Breaking rear traction in a turn doesn't indicate that your car is not understeering . . .

Read up on "left-foot braking". Essential on our automatics . . .

:-) neil
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  #10  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:04 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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now how do you figure breaking the rear loose without using throttle is not oversteering?

i know if the front is pushing and you gas it you can obviously break the rear loose and be breaking traction with both ends. i did that at the greenwood autocross. lots of smoke, not much progress.

so you like the left foot braking?

i was using the setting next to low that causes it to hold the gear you are in when you let off the gas. (b?)

i am going to mount the slicks on my 6.5 x 14 bundts that came on the sec and sls i think. is it legal to drive on the street with the slicks mounted on the car?

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Last edited by t walgamuth; 07-07-2006 at 08:08 AM.
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  #11  
Old 07-07-2006, 01:14 PM
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I know of a fellow in Aust. who doubled up his rear sway bar..said it improved handling dramaticly. Might be worth trying.

I can't remember if you are running H&R's or not.. How about Bilstein HD's?
This is another instance where a set of Koni Yellows would be Ideal!

The non-SLS springs are the stiffer of the two.

I think you would find changing to a taller/wider rim would net some serious improvement as well.


Best of Luck!

Jonathan
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2006, 01:20 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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i am running stock springs, hd bilstein shocks.

i wont be doing anythng too extensive with this car since i will be putting the 280e euro on the road as soon as we can get the work done, then the slicks will go on it. and the lowering springs and some negative camber and probaby a rumbly exhaust.

thanks for your thoughts.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2006, 01:47 PM
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I hear you.. Best of luck w/ the 280!

Always full of lots of thoughts so glad to relay them anytime :-P

Jonathan
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Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines.
Mercedes Repair Atlanta
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2006, 11:46 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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i got the slicks on the sec today. they are like glue! i am not sure i can break the tires loose even under full throttle. i took it over to the high school and scuffed the tires. the steering response and cornering force is astounding.
i am looking forward to tomorrow. i am going to trailer it up to the meet. autocross in crown point indiana.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2006, 01:00 PM
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sounds like you need more power w/ this new found traction;-)

Best of Luck!

Jonathan

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Jonathan Hodgman
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning.
Follow Us on Facebook!
Located in the Atlanta area
Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines.
Mercedes Repair Atlanta
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