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  #1  
Old 10-19-2006, 08:49 PM
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Turbo or swap engine to 1990 300CE

Hi
I have a 1990 300CE 24v M104-CIS engine.
I want to increase the 0-60 performance.
I like the style of my car and want to keep it. I always wanted the pillarless coupe of this style.
I want it to look from the outside just like any other W124. I'm not after the boy racer look.
I therefore I figure I have 3 choices.
Install 2 turbo units as per the mosselman upgrade model. However I believe I can fit it well under the £4K(parts only) I have been quoted so far. I can source both turbo's for around £750 (2x Garett T25BB). I would get the manifold custom made and fit an appropriate intercooler (maybe have to be custom made).
Has anybody done this or fitted the mosselman on this engine model. I'd really like to see pictures.? Any help much appreciated.
I'm a bit concerned about the heat from all this gubbins though. I may need to put in a bigger radiator.

Prior to this I plan to rebuild the current engine (118K on it). I've not seen any performance parts for this engine so I guess It will remain stock.
Although I did notice that Ortolan was going to fit C36 component into his m103.

My second option is to find and install a C36 engine. Not sure if that is really viable as It could involve,wiringloom, ECU, gearbox, diff changes.
and end up being a lot more expensive and a bit of a nightmare for me.
Not really very sure orconfident about this one and I'd rather keep the original engine.

Third option is the infamous 500 V8 squeeze but I think it will work out more expensive and an even harder and expensive mod than the C36

I might be mad as a hatter doing this on a 16 year old car. I just prefer these models. Thats why I bought one.
Any help, thoughts or ideas much appreciated.

Cheers

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  #2  
Old 10-19-2006, 09:14 PM
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I'd go the TT route, and if you are going to rebuild the engine I'd have custom pistons made up w/ a lower c/r as well as lightened some in an effort to get the car even more rev happy.

C36 is cool, but again a bit tough to find along w/ all it's necc. bits.

dropping in an M119 would be Sweet, but you'll be modifying quite a bit to make it fit etc, etc..plus you'll lose the the balence/weight distribution of the current set up.

Jonathan
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2006, 09:23 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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if i had to have more performance i would stick with a factory upgrade.

doing a from scratch turbo installation seems like asking for a barrel of trouble sorting it out.

it would be a lot cheaper to sell off your coupe and buy a factory hot rod like a 500e. course it has two more doors but it will be a sweet performer. and you cant see the extra doors from the drivers seat.

tom w
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2006, 10:34 PM
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Factory is nice, but you'll have one of what everyone else that owns a 500E owns.. Build up your engine from scratch; fab up manifolds, use variable vane turbo's and you'll have something unique and brutally fast.

Turbo installs w/ some research can be reasonably straight forward. The availability of inexpensive stand alone FI systems (Megasquirt etc..) make this sort of thing far more feasible then it was 5 years ago.

Jonathan
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2006, 11:39 PM
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unique is fine. but spend $5k on a conversion and when you get tired of it you will have a sale proof car, imho. with a factory hot rod like the 500e the market will only rise for a nice car.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2006, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhodg5ck View Post
I'd go the TT route, and if you are going to rebuild the engine I'd have custom pistons made up w/ a lower c/r as well as lightened some in an effort to get the car even more rev happy.

C36 is cool, but again a bit tough to find along w/ all it's necc. bits.

dropping in an M119 would be Sweet, but you'll be modifying quite a bit to make it fit etc, etc..plus you'll lose the the balence/weight distribution of the current set up.

Jonathan
Most people thinks, that the M119 is a heavier than 6-bangers, but ist wrong.
M119 has alloy block, where m103/m104 has steel block. v8 and r6 weight about the same...
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2006, 10:29 AM
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I look @ it as if I'm going to tackle/make something special I'm going to keep it for the rest of my life (a-la my 560 TT)..otherwise I wouldn't go about it.

Done right, a purpose built TT 3.X liter engine would lay waste to a 500E.

Also, the block on the M104 is a thin wall casting making the block suprisingly light. Do you know what the 119/104's weigh?

Jonathan
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2006, 11:44 AM
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I think a while ago someone posted the 104 at close to 600lbs more or less. 500Es I think personally, kinda boring. But i never understood the "Sport Sedan" junk, is it a sports car or not? And like you said, they arent real hard to beat with some tuning and you actually get an attractive vehicle out of the coupe.
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2006, 11:47 AM
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I don't see how it could weight that much.. A 3.0L engine from an Austin Healey (All cast iron and f'in heavy) comes in @ less then that.

I've got a C36 engine/trans in the shop, I'll need to get a couple of bathroom scales togeher and see what this puppy weighs!

Jonathan
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  #10  
Old 10-20-2006, 11:49 AM
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It does sounds high. IIRC, whomever posted it referenced a website, or perhaps just said they read it from a website.
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  #11  
Old 10-20-2006, 12:01 PM
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I was pontificating the same idea when i bought my ce a year ago,however I ran into two problems.for one a lack of a kit from different manufactuers and 2nd the only reputable shop that performed the transformation was 200 miles away.I actually put a down payment on the mosselm kit.Big mistake,they said it would take 2 weeks to get the kit to me.2 months latter I was on the phone demanding a refund for non delivery-thank goodness for paypal.I took my car to the local around the way shop that worked on domestic racers.The guy was working on a grandnational.It had a huge turbo on it.He had an complete engine in the shop that he claimed was in the way.I got the complete engine trany and engine harness for $1500 with a turbo onit.I will be putting the engine in next month.I will be pumping close to 500 rwp at 12pounds of boost.People may critize this setup but in total $5000 has been spent including the 1990 300ce.When im done ill be running with 2006 z06 vetts at the track.God luck on your setup.sounds like you want to seperate your self from the rest keep us posted.
check out this link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I2QNK8eII0
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2006, 01:05 PM
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M119 was around 460LBS and M104 was around 450LBS, when I last did some reasearch...
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2006, 01:30 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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i think the diesels are the heaviest engines used in this period. they designed the v8 to be usable where the sixes were used without much trouble.

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #14  
Old 10-20-2006, 02:43 PM
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Wow Liked the vid. Funny thing is when I was discussing this with my mate he said 1 option was to stick a Supra engine in. Back in Thailand they do this all the time as the parts are much cheaper and easily available.
I'm in sunny Hampshire,UK corvette engines are not easily found out here pity cause they're awesome.
If I'm going to put this amount of time and effort not to mention cash the car is for keeps.
Currently I find the car too slow from take off. My previous car was a Subaru WRX but I was talked into selling it to buy a house. humph women eh. Better investment blah blah
I want to try and get this type of performance out of a elegant saloon.
I managed to get hold of this 300CE for good price and I think its an interesting project. Whether or not I can achieve it on a budget of about £5K is what I'm trying to ascertain.
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  #15  
Old 10-20-2006, 05:44 PM
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M103/104 blocks aren't that heavy, See!
While the M119 does weigh about the same, there is a considerable amount of extra components that add weight to the 500E versus other 124's. The 500E is very fast for what it is but doesn't handle as well as my E320 and definately not my modified 300E.
Attached Thumbnails
Turbo or swap engine to 1990 300CE-m103-engine-block.jpg  

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