If it is a TurboTechnics installation as you state, contact John Pearson in the Parts Department of Hughes of Beaconsfield (tel: 01494 672141).
Hughes was the installing Mercedes dealer in the early nineties of the kits.
John has indicated that they still maintain spares for the cars.

The only hoses that may be difficult to obtain from other then Hughes are the blue wrapped hoses from the turbo output to the intercooler as they are molded to shape.

The hose from the intercooler to the intake plenum is 2-1/4" I.D. and the hoses from the air filter assembly to the turbo intake are 2" I.D.
These can be replaced with a general purpose silicone coated fiberglass duct hose (rated -75 Degree F to 500 Degree F.) This type of flexible hose is available in the USA from industrial supply houses for about $11.00 per lineal foot.

thanks for that info

ive emailed TT and hughes but no response as yet

ive got around £1,000 set aside to get all the hoses replaced and get it set up and running correctly

then new wheels and a full respray as silver is an ugly colour

and have my AMG kit taken from GFP 2 to GFP 3 when im having it sprayed

Best to call John Pearson @ Hughes as he sometimes doesn't respond quickly to emails.
TurboTechnics is no longer in the business of providing or supporting spares for their Turbo kits.
Hughes recently was selling off complete new kits for only 1000 pounds sterling !!!

Received mine in the USA last month and now undergoing installation.

I would think the cost of replacement hoses should be under 150 pounds sterling.

Does anyone have an approximate estimate (time and money) for an install and tuning ? Target is a 3.2L M104 motor on a 1993 300CE/320CE.

Sounds like Willow Automotive in Chicago is one dealer.

Thanks - Manuel

Willow is not a dealer but an installer.
I sent the car over a thousand miles to this shop as they are one of the few left that have experience on twin turbo installs on the M103.
Most shops won't work on a M103 or M104 (which you have) as they do not have "sophisticated" control systems and full electronic injection systems.

The kit will cost approx $3000.00 delivered to your door.
Estimate around forty hours labor, so about $7000.00 installed.
The install should add a minimum of 100 HP and equal amount of torque.
I'm hoping for around an additional 115 at the rear wheels, which would equate to about 310HP at the flywheel.
Baseline dyno was 144HP which indicates about a 20%+ drive train loss.
I would recommend a shop that has a dyno, to asssure the proper air/fuel ratio settings.
All to easy to lean out under boost and smoke your engine.

Hey Guys,
My cousin who is installing the kit was looking over the parts and the instructions. This thread has been talking about shortened connecting rods, and the instructions say to send them to Turbo Technics for exchange. Can anyone shed some light as to what get done to the new/modified connecting rods?
Has anyone received machining instructions? or any information?
I'm eager to get this going but need a little more info.
Joe

Contact Hughes of Beaconsfield in the UK who were the supplying agents of this kit on 0044 1494 672141 and ask for the guy who knows all about the TT system and you should get your answer or at least an idea of how short the con-rods need to be.

Which engine are you installing the kit on?

My install is on a 1988 M103, which is 9.2:1 to start with, so no shortening of the con rods to lower compression will be done.

Ran into a problem with the oil feed lines for the turbos.
The supplied adapter appears to have a measured 14MM thread, but it's not M14x1.5. Possible it is a BSPP. This thread is supposed to match and install into the oil filter housing where the pressure sender fits. The thread in the housing is M12x1.5.
Had to buy fittings and TIG weld to the TT adapter to work.

I have the 3.2L m104 version.

The 3.2L M104 kit comes with rods that have been shortened by ~1mm.

Really? I haven't received my kit yet, though I was not expecting it to include the shorter rods.... It would be a bonus if it does!

I've also been told that using a thicker head gasket wouldn't compromise strength. There were a few markets around the world where Mercedes would supply cars with a thicker gasket in order to lower compression for fuel grades available in that region - I believe the Middle East & Australia (Ortolan?) were included.

What does the M104 twin turbo kit require for compression? 9.2:1?

I've just sent an email to John Pearson to find out about the connecting rods. In the mean time it there any chance that you might be able to take some measurements of the modified connecting rod? My cousin has access to a full machine shop and can do the modification himself.

I have uploaded pics of my 3 cars and here they are .....

1996 E320 sportline (crashed and wrote it off summer 2005)

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...RSJULY2005.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...t/GFP1SIDE.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...P1JUNE2004.jpg


1994 E320 full factory fitted AMG kit (not sure about boot spoiler) & (still got)

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...NTLIGHTSON.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...FP2-SIDEON.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...2-REEDYCAM.jpg


1995 E320 Turbo Technics (still got)

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...pot/SIDEON.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...pot/ENGINE.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...FRONTSEATS.jpg



http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...BACKSIDEON.jpg

the 1st pic i edited out the side indicators and the fuel hatch then forgot to save as a seperate file!

and

any ideas where i can get a new fog light for the amg kit one?

AMG foglights can be bought from any MB dealer but they're not cheap.
The AMG kitted one looks the business by the way.:cool:

How did you insure the twin turbo version?

Unfortunately the new rods have already been installed into my engine so I can't take any measurements. I'm sure John Pearson would be happy to give you the exact measurements though.

out of all 3 my fav looking is the AMG styled one but it only has 1 electric seat and is 4 speed but the silver one is twin electric and 5 speed

as for insuring it.....im with nowrich union and with 9 points and 2 claims in last 5 years i pay £450ish and i rang them and asked to add the new car and they said no i would need to start a new policy and then would have zero NCD!

but as im not using the silver one as it needs the turbos setting up and new hoses its just on my drive way doing nothing, ive now got the money to send it to o'dells racing and they will give it the once over as they are turbo specalists and mainly do cosworths and rs turbos so they know a garret t2 when they see it

my insurance is up in october but then do i tell them its a TT conversion or say nothing?

If you don't tell them and try to claim they will refuse to pay out. I guess I'll have to get a quote from a specialist insurer.

I spoke to John Pearson this morning. He tells me that modified conrods are not in the kits and Turbo Technics modified the conrods and throttle bodies for them.
So, I rang Turbo Technics and the guy I spoke to said they never actually did anything with the conrods! They removed the con rods, machined the pistons then reassembled. He couldn't remember what they did to the throttle bodies but he will find out. Apparently they get damaged under boost if not modified.
He quoted £200+vat (tax) to machine all six pistons.
Also the exhaust does not come with the Cat so has to be modified to add it.
It is definitely not a simple bolt-on mod.

Now this is getting interesting. I don't recall reading anything about the throttle body other than in the kit there is this part "3408-50 1 Throttle body adapter / Injector assembly". But I'm not a mechanic so not quite sure what this part does. But it sound like I'm going to have to put more money aside for the engine buildup.

E320_Coupe if you do happen to find out anymore info please post. I have made arrangements to get shortened connecting rods. So I find the statement made by the TT guy very interesting.

It's a bolt on, but not so simple !!!!
In the process of having a very experienced shop doing the install.
Close to 50 hours labor already as modifications had to be first figured out then made to the supplied TT parts. !
A high flow cat will be required, but the cost is under $200.00 for a cat with 2 x 2" pipes in and out.

The "Throttle body adapter / Injector assembly", for the M103-12V is pictured below.

http://www.dropshots.com/photos/1709...213/142016.jpg

This assembly is the fuel enrichment method required under boost.
It uses two additional injectors which spray into the throttle body.
It mounts underneath the fuel distributor / air valve assembly, replacing the boot that normally connects the air assembly to the throttle body.
The instructions call out a machined throttle body.
What we have found on the M103 is that the adapter slides into and fits quite snug to the throttle body.
We will seal the two with a bead of high temperature silicon and smoke test for leaks.

I can confirm that the con rods are not included in the kit and your exisitng ones would need to be modified.

I spoke with turbo techinics 6 months ago regarding the kits and they said the pistons and conrods were to be modified, this is only true for the m104 and not for the m103 (may be this is were the confusion is). The compression ratio needs to come down in order to add the boost without compromising reliability.
The fitting instuctions state:
Send the pistons, connecting rods, throttle bodys and catalyst to turbo technics.

Further on it states "re-fit the pistons to the shortened connecting rods". Also "assemble injector to throttle body casting using the 'O' rings supplied."

Ive got a spare AMG lamp, drop me a pm with your number and we can sort something out.

Thanks man ....

wow you people are mad

i love the way you get normal 2.0 cars and slip a 6.9 v8 in it

very impressive

230mph merc! id love to see video of that

ive seen videos from saudi where you lot get rental cars and then do 80 mph and then pull 360 after 360 in them

and then see some bloke in a f50 doing 200mph down a dusty motorway

id love to come to saudi and see all that stuff going on

Hey Guys,
Just got the connecting rods in. I can confirm that they have been modified. Attached is a picture.

Joe,

Consider yourself very fortunate! I just spoke to John @ Hughes today & told me that those must have been the LAST set & they shouldn't really have been included....

Have you started the conversion yet?

I was just waiting for the con rods to come in. I also purchased another engine to rebuild for the conversion. I'm wasn't too keen of having my car laid up for a while. So, now it's just a matter of getting the goods to my cousin, and then he starts.
I'm hoping for things to be done quick, but we'll see how things go.

Well, I met John Pearson yesterday and I now have an M104 3.2 twin turbo kit. :D
Just the small matter of fitting it all now.

Incredible bargain !!!!!!
My M103 should be complete this week and on the dyno.
Will post results.

I know this is a big ask, but could oyu take those conrods down to a machine shop and get the measurements for them? It seems your the only hope at the moment as turbo technics dont have the design spec and cannot supply use the information. It would help anyone who has bought the m104 kit if you could get that info for us.
Thanks

id whip mine apart but id end up with millions of broken bits

as mine is a m104 3.2 24v coupe and has done 140,000 miles what sort of power will it have or did it have as ive read they went from around 325 bhp to 375 bhp and once tweaked upto 450 bhp!

also 2 more questions if anyone can help

what is the normal 0-60 for the e320 coupe and what is the time for the m104 twin turbo coupe version

and secondly did they ever limit the normal e320 coupe to 155 mph as on my sat nave ive had it to 151 mph

and im sneaking in a third question, what is the top speed of the m104 twin turbo coupe and again is it limited

I'll take out the caliper and see what I can do. If I can't get the dimensions myself, it might take me a little time to get someone else to do it.

Your a life saver!

These kits are designed to increse the output to 345bhp, I very much doubt you could get 450 bhp out it it.

The normal 0-60 is around 7.5secs, the turbo is 5.7secs. Top end on the turbos is restricted to 155mph.

i rang TT today and was suprised to hear they are in northampton (20 mins from me, 15 in good traffic) as i thought they were on the south coast

anyway they said talk to john on tuesday and he will book it in asap

i want them to replace all the hoses with silicone ones will they do this or insist on the older style

Ran into several problems with my M103 install.
First the fitting size on the turbo oil feed from the oil pressure switch.
But the major one is that the supplied DCU that fires the supplemental injectors is not firing the injectors enough to maintain an A/F ratio below 14.
My installer spoke to a shop in the U.K. that has taken over the support for the TT installations.
They state the supplied DCU is antiquated and they have been replacing with Aquamist ERL MF-2 controllers. This unit will allow adjustment of the injectors to give a rich condition under boost.
Did some research and decided to go more state of the art with a Split Second AIC. Should be installed tomorrow.
If the Split Second works ( 3D Mappable via software, with self contained MAP sensor), then suggest to junk all the switches and electronics from TT and use the Split Second.

Install Update
 

Suggest anyone beginning a TurboTechnics install to scrap the supplied electronics that controls the additional injectors.

Best with the supplied electronics under slight boost of 3 lbs was a 17:1 AFR along with a retard of the timing. Supplied unit has no adjustments

Much too lean and the compensation of retarding the timing diminishes power.

Go directly to a Splt Second additional injector controller.
Cuts your install by a few hours.

Out of the box without fully setting up with a laptop the 3D AFR mapping, we see about 12:1 AFR under full boost and no timing retard.


Should have the final dyno results shortly !!!

According to your mechanic that is fitting the kit, what is the maximum power that the twin T2 turbos could achieve under full boost and what boost pressure would this be at? (I'm assuming the same turbos are used for all three engine types)
One tuning specialist that saw the kit said the turbos would only be good for 220rwhp (in total) without overspinning them. I don't see how this is possible if the E320TT makes 345bhp (~270rwhp). Surely Turbo Technics wouldn't have pushed the turbos beyond their recommended redline when they designed the conversion.

Haven't got it on the dyno yet.

Consider scrapping all the supplied piggy back electronics that fire the two additional injectors.
Go with the "Split Second" A1C1-A2L additional injector controller.
Cost is USD $310.00
Quick to connect, 12V power, Speed signal ( green/yellow wire at the fuel pump relay) and vacuum line from the intake manifold.
You can maintain a .85 lambda ( 12.5 AFR) through the full boost RPM range and not have to retard timing.

Hoping for about 100HP+ additional which will give me about 300HP ( 250RWHP) at the flywheel on the M103 .

Boost is fixed at around .5 bar (7 lbs).

I won't be able to use the supplied electronics because I don't even have the stock ECU for my 3.2L M104 swap. The M103 computer can't run it.
I bought an Autronic SMC with harness for AU$1200 (US$900 approx.) which I want to use to run everything.
I want to get 300kW at the crank but I don't know if the supplied T2 turbos can make enough boost. I may need to upgrade to T25/T28 units.

B.J.

Before you upgrade let's see how I dyno with the supplied turbos.
They are set at .5 bar, but the setting can be increased for added boost, but not recommended.

Changing the Engine/Fuel management will give you more power then the supplied TurboTechnics control as you won't be retarding the timing.

The twin 2" exhaust will give more power over stock and if you need to run a cat go to a high flow that will handle a 5.0 - 6.0 liter engine.

Ed

Twin Turbo Dyno Results
 

B.J.

Don't be depressed.

On a Mustang load dyno we consistently pulled 195HP and 220LbFt torque.
This is a 50HP and 75LbFt torque increase over the base line pre turbo install pull.
Torque is coming in almost immediately and peaking under 4000RPM, about 800RPM lower then stock.
Pull was in a 90 degree F ambient with fans going.
Turbo boost at approx .48bar/7PSI.
AFR's set around .8 to .85 Lamba throughout the RPM range.
Still tweaking and road testing, may have to replace the new converter as it has a rattle in it.
Running 0-60 in less then six seconds.
I'm satisfied especially with the massive torque increase.

Estimate higher horsepower and torque if an inertia dyno was used to be 234 and 264, calculate to flywheel and about 280HP and 317LbFt torque.
Similar output to the old RennTech 3.6 performance package 2.

E36, M3 performance and in line with C36, C43......................

Much cheaper than the Renntech upgrade too! (US$13k plus labour from memory)
One video I'd love to see made is a race between a turbo'd 300CE, a stock 300CE and a 500E (maybe even an AMG Hammer too!). :cool:
Unfortunately I'll never be able to make such a video as no 500Es exist in Australia (that I'm aware of). A CLK55 would also make for a great race. Once my car is ready I might see if anyone on the Aussie MB forums is interested in going down to the track for a day... :idea3:

Let me know if anybody in Australia is interested in a Hammer.....I own the only right hand drive one (originally two RHD ones were produced but the other one was written off in an accident some years ago) and its coming up for sale in a couple of months.

My mechanic mentioned that he might be interested. What price are you after?

Wow....this is surely the holy grail of Hammers. :thumbsup:

Please don't hijack this thread by trying to flog your Hammer.

I'm going to start my install this week. Has anyone lowered the M104 compression by any other method than modified conrods?
I'm hoping I can machine the pistons enough to avoid shortening the rods.
Does anyone know what compression ratio Turbotechnics took the M104 to?

Vlad, PM me thanks.

The articles I posted at the start of this thread say compression was lowered to 9:1 on the M104. I assume that compression was left at the stock 9.2 for the M103. If anyone bought a TT kit for their M104 and needs shortened rods I have a set of AMG C36 rods which will drop your ratio into the 9s.