1986 190E 2.3-16 Chain Guide Rail Replacement - Page 10 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

chuni959 · #**136** 11-27-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racing

We normaly use a state of the art flow bench.
Swirl/tumble being measured coupled with flow at various valve lifts.

Next upgrade to the chassis apart from various aluminium/plastic bushings,upper shock bracketry aso is;

For a project this size..i of course have a couple of sponsors.
One of them being the local mercedes parts retailer.
So...ergo sum...of COURSE it has to say "AMG on the stoppers for a project this size..

drool
how much does that upgrade run with used parts?

Racing · #**137** 11-28-2007, 02:16 AM

Chuni.
I have absolutely no idea.
Around here tho the parts ain´t overly expensive new.
An educated guess would be just a tad over 1000 euros new.
(Calipers,pads and discs)

These are a direct bolt on for the 190 btw.
You need to bolt the calipers apart and let the "inner" sides trade places to make the connector come out right,but apart from that..just bolt them on there.
When done..you´re left with 17" wheels minimum.

chuni959 · #**138** 11-28-2007, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racing

Chuni.
I have absolutely no idea.
Around here tho the parts ain´t overly expensive new.
An educated guess would be just a tad over 1000 euros new.
(Calipers,pads and discs)

These are a direct bolt on for the 190 btw.
You need to bolt the calipers apart and let the "inner" sides trade places to make the connector come out right,but apart from that..just bolt them on there.
When done..you´re left with 17" wheels minimum.

what are those from again? C36? What year?

Racing · #**139** 11-28-2007, 12:40 PM

Nope.
C32.
Current ones.

matsalleh76 · #**140** 12-03-2007, 08:46 AM

Here is a little write-up I did for someone else who asked about doing a C-32 - 201 brake conversion.

It is simple and when combined with 500e rear calipers/rotors stops the car right now. I also installed a 500e master cylinder & servo as I was not happy with the stock 201 pedal travel after the conversion: the C-32/500e calipers require more fluid displacement to bite and an associated longer pedal travel. The 500 master cylinder/servo brought the system back to balance.

Here is the write-up:

Installation of the C-32 calipers and rotors is straight forward but your wheels must be 17" and you must have sufficient offset to keep the rim spokes from hitting the caliper body. If they do hit the caliper you have two choices: new rims or wheel spacers. The former is the right way to go......wheel spacers are a "crutch" and bad engineering. EVO-2 rims if you can find them are ideal.

In addition you will however have to do three "non-bolt-in" tasks:

1) remove or cut off the inner rotor splash plate. It is not necessary and will interfere with the C-32 caliper & rotor.

2) assuming you have a tubing flaring tool, make up brake hard lines from the caliper inlet up to the top of the caliper where they will connect to the soft line from the chassis. Reason: the calipers end up mounted with the inlet at the bottom of the caliper. You could use a soft line from the inlet up to the chassis but I do not recommend it as the soft line ends up too long. Therefore run a SS hard line from the inlet to the top of the caliper where it will receive the soft line from the chassis. The hard line should closely follow the outline of the caliper and can be clamped to the caliper by using one of the caliper body bolts to hold a little line clamp, steadying the hard line.

Note: The C-32 had the calipers mounted at the front of the spindle. The 201 calipers are mounted behind the spindles, so the C-32 calipers are switched from side to side: ie the left C-32 caliper is mounted on the right 201 spindle and vise-versa. This keeps the bleed screws at the top but the inlet remains at the bottom, thus the hard line extension bringing the soft line feed connection to the top of the caliper.

3) make up a soft line from the chassis brake line fitting to your newly made hard line.

You can get all the pieces required to make the lines from your local hydraulic suppliers. You might want to bring the calipers and the existing soft line to them so they can see what you want to do and choose the right caliper inlet-to-hard line fittings, the hard line-to-soft line fittings and the soft line ends them selves. They can also make up nice teflon/ss soft lines for you with the proper fittings at each end.

After you get all this mounted put on your wheels and make sure that the soft line from the top of the caliper does not contact the inside of the tire or bind up in any way as you turn the wheels from full-lock left to full-lock right.

Photos of:
-- caliper rear showing inlet & bottom of hard line.
-- caliper top showing hard line/soft line connection & bleed screw

An easy up-grade. Let me know if you need any additional info.

bobf.

chuni959 · #**141** 12-03-2007, 12:28 PM

if your bleeder screw is on the bottom, air will still be able to linger in the caliper and you would have to bleed them with the calipers off the car facing the right direction. The proper way to do this is to swap the faces of the calipers so the bleeder screw is up top

matsalleh76 · #**142** 12-03-2007, 08:34 PM

Chuni:

Don't worry, the bleeder screws remain at the top of the caliper.

Let me clarify: The C-32 had the calipers mounted at the front of the spindle. The 201 calipers are mounted behind the spindles, so the C-32 calipers are switched from side to side: ie the left C-32 caliper is mounted on the right 201 spindle and vise-versa. This keeps the bleed screws at the top but the inlet remains at the bottom, thus the hard line extension bringing the soft line feed connection to the top of the caliper.

Splitting and switching the caliper halves is not necessarily the way to go because of the different sized pistons (leading/trailing) on these calipers. Ours were an early style caliper, perhaps there is a later style caliper with equal sized pistons in which case splitting/switching would work.

bobf.

chuni959 · #**143** 12-03-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matsalleh76

Chuni:

Don't worry, the bleeder screws remain at the top of the caliper. Splitting and switching the caliper halves is not necessarily the way to go because of the different sized pistons (leading/trailing) on these calipers. Ours were an early style caliper, perhaps there is a later style caliper with equal sized pistons in which case splitting/switching would work.

bobf.

you must be talking about a different model of caliper, the in discussion are for a front firing brake application, not rear like the 201. Thus, they must be run backwards rendering any graduated piston sizing useless to begin with

matsalleh76 · #**144** 12-03-2007, 09:05 PM

Chuni,

You are correct. A few years ago there was a discussion on the safety implications of mounting C-32 calipers with differential pistons "backwards" but the implications were mostly speculation and not deal-killers. The conversion works well - safely.

This is cool --- direct same time communication: 10am here and 9pm there. Go to bed.

bobf.

chuni959 · #**145** 12-03-2007, 09:06 PM

8 pm actually
instant email notifications + gmail notifier works wonders

Racing · #**146** 12-04-2007, 05:01 AM

We´ve had the same experiences as Bob.
You can safely match n mix here.
I´d say that the largest concern in that case would be that the pads will wear a little uneven,but that would be marginaly in my book.

Conversion most def works,and works well.

Bob.Thanx for the tip.
Will check that part with hardlines...might be a better solution.

JimSmith · #**147** 02-26-2008, 07:16 PM

Racing,

Just an update - the engine developed an oil leak about October/November that was of concern because not only was it making this pristinely clean engine a mess, it was getting on the garage floor at my son's apartment and we couldn't tie it to anything in particular other than a lack of sealing between the front cover upper surface and the head. Which is a bummer to fix. Tried torque checking the fasteners in that area, the smaller socket head cap screws, but could only get to two of them and those two didn't seem loose - they moved slightly but they were not loose.

Looked over the oil circuit diagram in the manual and noted the intermediate sprocket in the head, the one just below the intake valve camshaft sprocket was fed pressurized oil that entered a centerline, drilled hole that went halfway down the "axle" the sprocket spins on from the front of the cylinder head and discharged out a radial drilled hole under the sprocket. The little chamber in the head where the oil enters the "axle" is sealed with a large flat socket headed screw and a copper crush ring just above the split line between the front cover and the head. Well, it turns out once my son mined his way to the nut it was loose! He put a new nut on and new washer and snugged it down tight. No more leak.

Seems either the shop that did the skim cut on the head or the one that did the valve seat replacements must have had a need to loosen that nut. We should have checked it tight, but, hey, live and learn. Nothing horrible happened so we are ok.

Plans to order parts to install a VEMS system are in the works. I am sure you will be getting some requests for information and sourcing, Racing. Thanks for your patience. Jim

Racing · #**148** 03-01-2008, 06:20 AM

Anytime.

Things are indeed progressing around here as well.

Brakes are in place on the new brilliant silber 92 i bought.

Wheels needed 10mm spacers to fit with the much bigger brakes leaving me with a 25mm ET.Turned spacers out of 7075T6

New car.Spring is coming

New "home signal" trigger bracket to go where the OEM SLS pump resides.

Car is since about a week back converted to stick(was a slushbox one when i picked it up)
Uniball gear lever ends,homebrew shifter knob with "go baby go" button(launch control) and what have you not...gear lever assy has been cmpl overhauled with new pts.Retaining ring for the boot out of....7075T6 of course

New 3.5" exhaust for the turbo motor.Apple racing silencer.

Lower control arm bushing kit out of Delrin and 7075-again.
Turned press fit,are completely "noise" less so far and REALLY wakes the front end up

Our new CNC cut,laser engraved and anodized fuelrails.
Can be had any colour you like...as long as it´s black

Valve springs to take us the other side of 10 000rpms..shims are just to check for installed pressures.

Then....the nemesis of all cossies has been combated...
Intake finally came to solid form in it´s first stages.

Altho this is a first multi axes CNC cut piece,we opted to cut this first prototype rather coarse to save machining time as we wanted to make sure all the various holes asf ended up in the right place.

None the less....out of 6086 aluminium-so it can be modded when need be with a TIG for various user specific brackets and what have you not(which is a lot harder with for instance 7075)...

Opted to use this first prototype for my own new turbo motor,but the idea is that the flange can be used for a myriad of setups incl gulliotine.
Cheap tho....nope..

Racing · #**149** 03-01-2008, 06:22 AM

(Of course...

)

Edit;Chuni.You were right on the money.Live and learn i guess.Thanx.

JimSmith · #**150** 03-01-2008, 02:26 PM

Racing,

It may be my computer, but I can only see your photos in the above longer post if I follow links in an email notification I got. Anyway, the car looks great, and so does that fuel rail. Any shots of it installed? This is one of the questions I have been after my son to get some answers to - I want to make sure he has a complete list of parts, lead times, and cost, as well as some idea of how to put it all together and how it is supposed to look.

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your projects. Glad to see you removed the slushbox, too. I really imagined only the American market had a demand for a 16 valve with an automatic.

Thanks again, Jim