M116 W124 Wagon... 420TE.

[iwrock]

I am about to build up a monster wagon....


I have sourced a wrecked complete W126 420SEL. I am going to buy it, and take the motor and trannie from that and swap it into my W124 300TE with bum motor.


The end result should be interesting... V8 Powered Wagon.

I have talked to a few friends, who think that I am nuts for doing this, but its going to happen sometime in the next few months.


I will get a few pictures of my parts car in the next few days.


Any input on this would be appreciated...


Anyone out there know what computers or parts I need from the W126 to make the motor run?

Thanks for reading.. Justin.

[POS]

I have zero input, but I'd sure to love to see you put it together.

[Xsbank]

I've only ever driven one 420, and it was an SEL. I thought it was a dog! Had to work very hard to haul around that large car. Then again, I have a 300SEL.

Then again, you have the engine available....

[Jim B.]

The question's been tossed out for you onto the W124 performance section of the other place.

You can follow the thread and see what happens.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1346786-w124-performance-thread-6.html#post2689012

Some of the 500E people might see this. You could join 500Ecstacy.com and ask those guys too.....

I don't know specifically, but it should fit - after all there is the 500E/E500 chassis.

Not only on the factory Porsche/Mercedes Benz cars, has it been done, with the 500E/E500 but I am aware of a couple of other projects, going on, with regard to private Mercedes Benz shop owners in the USA shoehorning a 500 engine into a W124 300CE.

Here's one that Satish was doing:

http://www.motorwerksgroup.com/projects.htm

A guy who owned a Mercedes Benz repair shop in San Diego was working on the same conversion (you should go and look at it if you are going down to LA to check a car for a friend) and was documenting it on Benzworld. It got delayed when he got into a Motorcycle accident or something and broke or hurt his leg.

Here is that thread (it was a W124 400CE project)

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1241274-going-v8-400ce.html?highlight=500CE

To the best of my knowledge, the HP figures, for the relevant W126 US spec cars were as follows:

300SE: 177 hp

420SEL: 201 hp

560SEL: 238 hp

(The 420 engine is a bored out 380, as the 560 is a bored out 500)

So your proposed project would bump you up some, but not too much.

I think the 420 engine could be squeezed in, but before you buy it, what about the 560 engine? That would definately give you more power.

We KNOW the 500 engine ought to fit, but a US spec engine would only be available through 1985 in California, and sticking one of them in your 1988 TE chassis, would probably not be California smog legal. (Because it would be older and might haveless smog crap on it)

Will the driveshaft of a W126 fit?

What about the rear diff? FYI the rear end off the W126 1986-1991 V8 cars for the USA was 2:47. I think they were different for the 300 W126 though.

What were they for the W124 TE?

The W126 1986-1991 cars were all 2nd gear start equipped ones. I would think a first gear start module would be preferred. I have an old Bergwerks FGS on mine and I really like it.

Would a 560 engine fit in one? To me that is a question you ought to which you should find out the answer...

An intriguiging proposition, but do your due diligence first, get all the questions answered before you do it, or all of a sudden it might get you into a deep financial money pit, I would think...

Would you be going to flare the front and rear fenders on the wagon for a true 500E/E500
look on it, or will you stay stock with the body?

You could turn that thing into a real Street Sweeper if it worked......

[iwrock]

The reason for the 420 motor is the fact that the heads on it are shorter than those on the M117 560 motor.

I am not concerned with the horsepower gain... I am interested in the car going from 180 ftlbs of torque to 230 ftlbs of torque. May not seem like a whole lot, but its significant in a small car.

The rear end in the wagon is (I think) is 3.27. Combine that with the nice more torquier motor, it will be a nice combo.


I looked at the car earlier today, and I love how it looks stock. Maybe the flared fenders, but for now, I want to leave it stock.

I am thinking of putting fogs in the bumper though...

[Pete Geither]

Justin,,,, I have toyed with the idea of a 119 motor into my TE. Seems it would be the easiest of the swaps if you had both cars in front of you. 400E's aren't really that rare or expensive any more, and everything should be easily swapped,,, except for the work on that forward firewall. I look at my wifes' 400e, and my TE all the time with the hoods up,,, hummmm.

[iwrock]

I have thought about the M119 V8, but its too computerized for my likes...



There is massive rewiring there, as well as a pretty good deal of adapting computers to work in there... It would be easier to chop the nose off one, and weld it to another...


The M116 is pretty low tech... Bolt it in, adapt computer, and away we go.

[Roncallo]

Originally Posted by iwrock

I have thought about the M119 V8, but its too computerized for my likes...



There is massive rewiring there, as well as a pretty good deal of adapting computers to work in there... It would be easier to chop the nose off one, and weld it to another...


The M116 is pretty low tech... Bolt it in, adapt computer, and away we go.

I hope I dident scare you off Justin. A 1990 CIS M119 should have about the same electronics as a 89 M117.

John Roncallo

[fahrgewehr2]

Why not a CIS 104 motor? (3.0 - from a 300CE or SL)

227hp vs. 201 for the m116. 7000 RPM redline is unique.

Looks like the mounts are the same (obviously both motors were in the same car). No fabrication, totally stock, more power, and you can stick with CIS (a good or bad thing, depending on your point of view.

[Roncallo]

Originally Posted by iwrock

I have thought about the M119 V8, but its too computerized for my likes...



There is massive rewiring there, as well as a pretty good deal of adapting computers to work in there... It would be easier to chop the nose off one, and weld it to another...


The M116 is pretty low tech... Bolt it in, adapt computer, and away we go.

What the problem? I to think of it as they are just a bunch of plug in connectors. What me worry

John Roncallo

[iwrock]

Originally Posted by Roncallo

What the problem? I to think of it as they are just a bunch of plug in connectors. What me worry

John Roncallo

DANG! That looks like my Spaghetti Dinner last night...





I thought about the M104... I cannot find one in my price range, same with the M119.

I picked up the whole running and limping 420SEL for 150 bucks... Cannot go wrong.

[Pete Geither]

Originally Posted by fahrgewehr2

Why not a CIS 104 motor? (3.0 - from a 300CE or SL)

227hp vs. 201 for the m116. 7000 RPM redline is unique.

Looks like the mounts are the same (obviously both motors were in the same car). No fabrication, totally stock, more power, and you can stick with CIS (a good or bad thing, depending on your point of view.

Even the 104 from a newer TE. I have not had a problem with the power of the stock engine in my TE,,, until I drive the wifes' 400. The TE still kicks some serious butt though. On the local "drag strip", I have beat a Hemi Dodge pick up and many assorted ricers. They always look at me as if to say,,, WTF was THAT ?

[iwrock]

Originally Posted by Pete Geither

Even the 104 from a newer TE. I have not had a problem with the power of the stock engine in my TE,,, until I drive the wifes' 400. The TE still kicks some serious butt though. On the local "drag strip", I have beat a Hemi Dodge pick up and many assorted ricers. They always look at me as if to say,,, WTF was THAT ?

I am hoping for that effect with my V8 wagon.

[jhodg5ck]

I think you might find the RPM's on the V8 w/ a 3.27 to be a bit Much on the highway.. The general consensus is a 2.82 as the best compromise.

Jonathan

[FLYNAVY]

I'm currently finishing up a 5.6L m117 swap into my 190e (also a former m103). If you have any specific questions, I may be able to answer them