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M116 W124 Wagon... 420TE.
I am about to build up a monster wagon....
I have sourced a wrecked complete W126 420SEL. I am going to buy it, and take the motor and trannie from that and swap it into my W124 300TE with bum motor. The end result should be interesting... V8 Powered Wagon. I have talked to a few friends, who think that I am nuts for doing this, but its going to happen sometime in the next few months. I will get a few pictures of my parts car in the next few days. Any input on this would be appreciated... Anyone out there know what computers or parts I need from the W126 to make the motor run? Thanks for reading.. Justin.
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-Justin 91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd 01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd 07 MB ML320 CDI - dd 16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd it's automatic. |
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I have zero input, but I'd sure to love to see you put it together.
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- Brian 1989 500SEL Euro 1966 250SE Cabriolet 1958 BMW Isetta 600 |
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I've only ever driven one 420, and it was an SEL. I thought it was a dog! Had to work very hard to haul around that large car. Then again, I have a 300SEL.
Then again, you have the engine available....
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1991 300 SEL 218,000 Km "Xsbank's rules of mechanical intervention: Always go for the easiest solution first; 90% of what ails a gasoline engine is ignition; After that its all a WAG." |
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A few questions before you pull the trigger on this...?
The question's been tossed out for you onto the W124 performance section of the other place.
You can follow the thread and see what happens. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1346786-w124-performance-thread-6.html#post2689012 Some of the 500E people might see this. You could join 500Ecstacy.com and ask those guys too..... I don't know specifically, but it should fit - after all there is the 500E/E500 chassis. Not only on the factory Porsche/Mercedes Benz cars, has it been done, with the 500E/E500 but I am aware of a couple of other projects, going on, with regard to private Mercedes Benz shop owners in the USA shoehorning a 500 engine into a W124 300CE. Here's one that Satish was doing: http://www.motorwerksgroup.com/projects.htm A guy who owned a Mercedes Benz repair shop in San Diego was working on the same conversion (you should go and look at it if you are going down to LA to check a car for a friend) and was documenting it on Benzworld. It got delayed when he got into a Motorcycle accident or something and broke or hurt his leg. Here is that thread (it was a W124 400CE project) http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1241274-going-v8-400ce.html?highlight=500CE To the best of my knowledge, the HP figures, for the relevant W126 US spec cars were as follows: 300SE: 177 hp 420SEL: 201 hp 560SEL: 238 hp (The 420 engine is a bored out 380, as the 560 is a bored out 500) So your proposed project would bump you up some, but not too much. I think the 420 engine could be squeezed in, but before you buy it, what about the 560 engine? That would definately give you more power. We KNOW the 500 engine ought to fit, but a US spec engine would only be available through 1985 in California, and sticking one of them in your 1988 TE chassis, would probably not be California smog legal. (Because it would be older and might haveless smog crap on it) Will the driveshaft of a W126 fit? What about the rear diff? FYI the rear end off the W126 1986-1991 V8 cars for the USA was 2:47. I think they were different for the 300 W126 though. What were they for the W124 TE? The W126 1986-1991 cars were all 2nd gear start equipped ones. I would think a first gear start module would be preferred. I have an old Bergwerks FGS on mine and I really like it. Would a 560 engine fit in one? To me that is a question you ought to which you should find out the answer... An intriguiging proposition, but do your due diligence first, get all the questions answered before you do it, or all of a sudden it might get you into a deep financial money pit, I would think... Would you be going to flare the front and rear fenders on the wagon for a true 500E/E500 look on it, or will you stay stock with the body? You could turn that thing into a real Street Sweeper if it worked......
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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ... 1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold) 2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp 1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k 2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold) Last edited by Jim B.; 01-08-2008 at 12:27 AM. |
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The reason for the 420 motor is the fact that the heads on it are shorter than those on the M117 560 motor.
I am not concerned with the horsepower gain... I am interested in the car going from 180 ftlbs of torque to 230 ftlbs of torque. May not seem like a whole lot, but its significant in a small car. The rear end in the wagon is (I think) is 3.27. Combine that with the nice more torquier motor, it will be a nice combo. I looked at the car earlier today, and I love how it looks stock. Maybe the flared fenders, but for now, I want to leave it stock. I am thinking of putting fogs in the bumper though...
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-Justin 91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd 01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd 07 MB ML320 CDI - dd 16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd it's automatic. |
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Justin,,,, I have toyed with the idea of a 119 motor into my TE. Seems it would be the easiest of the swaps if you had both cars in front of you. 400E's aren't really that rare or expensive any more, and everything should be easily swapped,,, except for the work on that forward firewall. I look at my wifes' 400e, and my TE all the time with the hoods up,,, hummmm.
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95 SL500 Smoke Silver, Parchment 64K 07 E350 4matic Station Wagon White 34K 02 E320 4Matic Silver/grey 80K 05 F150 Silver 44K |
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I have thought about the M119 V8, but its too computerized for my likes...
There is massive rewiring there, as well as a pretty good deal of adapting computers to work in there... It would be easier to chop the nose off one, and weld it to another... The M116 is pretty low tech... Bolt it in, adapt computer, and away we go.
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-Justin 91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd 01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd 07 MB ML320 CDI - dd 16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd it's automatic. |
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Quote:
John Roncallo |
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Why not a CIS 104 motor? (3.0 - from a 300CE or SL)
227hp vs. 201 for the m116. 7000 RPM redline is unique. Looks like the mounts are the same (obviously both motors were in the same car). No fabrication, totally stock, more power, and you can stick with CIS (a good or bad thing, depending on your point of view.
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'90 300SE 298k -300K and it gets put into retirement. '80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980. Had a: 1973 220 (gas) 1980 300SD 1992 400E |
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Quote:
John Roncallo |
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Quote:
I thought about the M104... I cannot find one in my price range, same with the M119. I picked up the whole running and limping 420SEL for 150 bucks... Cannot go wrong.
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-Justin 91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd 01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd 07 MB ML320 CDI - dd 16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd it's automatic. |
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Quote:
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95 SL500 Smoke Silver, Parchment 64K 07 E350 4matic Station Wagon White 34K 02 E320 4Matic Silver/grey 80K 05 F150 Silver 44K |
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Quote:
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-Justin 91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd 01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd 07 MB ML320 CDI - dd 16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd it's automatic. |
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I think you might find the RPM's on the V8 w/ a 3.27 to be a bit Much on the highway.. The general consensus is a 2.82 as the best compromise.
Jonathan
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Blue Ridge Mercedes Jonathan Hodgman http://www.blueridgemb.com/ Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning. Follow Us on Facebook! Located in the Atlanta area Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines. Mercedes Repair Atlanta |
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I'm currently finishing up a 5.6L m117 swap into my 190e (also a former m103). If you have any specific questions, I may be able to answer them
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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock 1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car |
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