For all of you who have swapped a motor before (one which doesn't just "bolt in" anyways), are there any tricks to centering the motor up and properly positioning it? I'll have to make a couple custom brackets to use the stock mounts on my m117, and I'm wondering if there are any special considerations I need to be making? What about setting the height over the x-member? And should I just orient my new mount pattern off of the old mount holes? Suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as it is finally time to get the thing in

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Ok, First factors to consider, are weight distribution, crossmember locations, cooling system, and finally hood clearance. Since you did not specify exactly what you are converting, or the components you are installing, I can't really help you yet with the details. Let me know exactly what you are converting, and what the application is and I can give you a lot more insight on the matter.

Nick

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5.6L m117 into a w201. Obviously weight distribution will be an issue, but I think my choices are limited. I would prefer to use the existing x-member as the main mounting point with two brackets forward of it for the motor shock absorbers (which my m103 didnt have). Should I mock everything up w/ the trans attached then, and try and get the rear mount to bolt up as well?

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Yes, You'll need to mock everything up,as well as make sure your driveshaft is the correct length, or take proper measurements if it needs modifications.
You'll also need to be sure your exhaust manifolds, or headers are going to clear your steering box, and remain far enough from your brake lines etc. Take some snap shots and email them to me and I can be of even more assistance.
Nick

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I approach these things by trying to keep the crankshafts on the same axis as the original crank. One thing I did find out is that on the 107 the engine is actually mounted about 20mm to the right side of the car. Start by clearing stuff out of the way just enough to get the engine and trans in place. Then fabricate some temporary holding brackets and tweek until the engine is in just the right position. With each tweek evaluate your clearances and make changes as you go. See my posts on M120 into 560SL. It generally runs through the iterative process of getting an M120 V12 into an 86 560SL.

John Roncallo

Yes, Thank you Rocallo.
Hey FlyNavy, any advise Roncallo has to offer, you can pretty much take to the bank. He is somewhat of an authority on this subject, and his reputation precedes him.
Thanks for Chiming in John. How are things anyways? I've moved away, to Prospect Hill, North Carolina. OSHA offered me the move and I took it. Currently studying turtle migrations, species, and the ecological effects of both man made and natural water bodies in landscapes. Polution has not had a major effect on things out here, as we are in the middle of nowhere, out in the woods. Been here since the first week of September. I love it down here. Hope the project is going well. I've been keeping an eye on your posts, and it looks pretty good to me. Wish I could see it in person, and I think I'll swing by during the Holidays at some point, when I get up there for either Thanksgiving, or Christmas. Take care.

Nick

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Thanks Nick

Good to see your doing well. If your down arround Christmass there is a slim possibility the M120 will be running.

John Roncallo

Thanks for the tips guys....is there anything in particular I should use to mock up the mounts? I was thinking plastic or cardboard or something for the time being while the motor's weight is suspended. How much clearance should I try and have around the pwr steering lines, fuel lines and brake lines (the one that runs across the x-member)? I'm really excited to get started (now that the rebuilt motor is back in my garage) but I don't want to get ahead of myself and **** something up. Most of the wiring is in a rough mock up, but unwrapped with a few connectors to still splice in.....would it be adviseable to hold off finishing this stuff until the motor is in? Also, about the headers....I know it is possible to get them in there (I have seen pics of it), but its hard to say what can be done while I'm in my garage....this is one of the few jobs I'm "outsourcing". Should I just make some temporary mounts, and then flatbed it? SO many questions....haha...this is my first swap btw

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

I mocked up a set of engine mounts using perferated angle iron. They were just mounts that bolted to the engine and had a flat base sticking straight out each side so that I could rest the engines weight on something.

Since I wanted to use the original engine mounts for the M-120, I took the top of original 129 crossmember and tack welded it to my 107 subframe. The angle iron mounts just rested on the 129 part at first. Then with the engine in place for the first time I could establish small corretions, up down left right etc.

From that point I could install the M-120 engine mounts and reposition the 129 cross member part to a point wher I thought the engine should be. After several attempts of installing and removing the engine and reposition each time I established what I felt was the perfect engine position. It is important to note that whan you get this close, you need to check everything with and without weight on wheels and I also checked with new and old engine mounts. Engine to hood clearance will be minimal with weight on wheels and new engine mounts. Other problems might exist with weight off wheels and worn engine mounts.

Once I established perfect engine position I made a jig so position in a new top part of the subframe replacing the 129 mock up. You can see this jig in the link below. as well as the subfram with the temporary 129 top cross member tacked in place.

M120 into 560SL (With Pictures!)

Good Luck
John Roncallo

Okay, here are some pics to shed light on the problem at hand....


Clearance around the steering gearbox....actually its better than this shot makes it look (probably around 1.5" or slightly more....and the exhaust ports are well above)

Clearance around the fuel and power steering lines Maybe a bit close since I have to run the downpipe right by them and then around the inner side of the steering gearbox (between it and the motor block)

Firewall clearance by the battery....needs more pounding, but it clears just barely

Rear clearance by the firewall.....probably a good 3-4 inches, but the angle underneath the brake master cylinder limits what I can do in terms of pushing it back

Clearance of the oil pan over the x-member

A couple more (including swaybar clearance w/ the 500e bar)


Any thoughts?

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Oh yeah, does anyone know how important those forward shock towers (on the motor mounts) are? Could I get away w/ just using the rubber mounts alone?

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

The engine shocks are a damper for engine vibration, you could loose them no problem. Are you going to use 126 type rubber mounts? I am not sure how close the 201 is to the 124 but I have looked at a M117 engine in my 300 CE. Perhaps the one I just removed to install my V12.

The engine needs room to rock back and forth at the back, the right side especially due to torque. I would like to see an couple inches or better at the very least in side clearance. I had a Ford Cobra engine in my CE for a while and it is much wider than a M117. The right side was a lot of banging more than you would expect and serious metal deformation at the base of the sub firewall.

The exhaust on the left bank is going to exit forward or ? The exhaust at the collector should be shielded from any lines near it but a few inches of air gap should be OK.

Have you tried fitting the transmission? One of the first things I do when fitting an engine is load the engine/transmission into the car and see how everything lines up. Ideally the trans mount is close to original location. This is also a concern with the 124/201 sub firewall and the 722.xxx used with V8 engines. Another good check is how much room there is between the fan or outer most pulley to the radiator. These two constraints give you an envelope to play with hopefully. For the looks of it I would try moving the engine forward a bit, just a half inch forward or back can open up a lot possibilities. Also with the engine and trans in the car check the height and tilt angle on the engine at the front.

Steve
V12 M120 SEC in progress

Concratulations I heard somewhere along the line some old Chinise saying that I really like "The thousand mile journey begins with the first few steps". You have taken those first few steps. Now it's either do or die. The rest of the task will yield to presistance.

What to do next. Well it looks like you may have established an engine position. If that is true it is time to fully dress the engine with all accessories belts waterpump fan if using it, transmission, intake and exhaust manifolds, airflow sensor and even the aircleaner. Now reinstall everything including the stock radiator and check all clearances again. Make shure you AT LEAST HAVE A PLAN for each clearance issue. Also Im not sure if this car has a subframe but if it does consider that the engine will be higher with weight on wheels.

My stock 560SL engine has about 1/4" less clearance than my V12 installation in my other 560SL but the things that are close in the stock 560SL are things that will flex and move out of the way like aircleaner snorkels. Where as the things that are in critical locations on the M120 are the left forward corner of the intake manifold which are not as flexible as the hood it will hit.

Oh yeah, 1 more thing, the mark of excellence is having the AC installed and running. No Mercedes south of the Artic Circle should ever be without AC.

As far as engine mounts it would be good if you could adapt 119 engine mounts they are fluid filled and will take the place of the engine shocks. It's nice not having those engine shockes in the way of stuff . However only the 117 mounts and shocks are tuned to your 117 engine, the significance of that is something you would have to take a chance on. Installation angle of mounts and shocks also comes into play here. So if you want to keep the original 117 engine mount shock tunning it is best to use the original engine mount stands, ruber mounts and heat shields with shock attactchments and shocks.

I had to re run my fuel and brake lines clear of where my exhaust was running, these are minor issues.

Good Luck and keep the pictures comming
John Roncallo

Thanks for the good pieces of advise everyone! You're right John, that is a good saying, and pretty fitting right now. I am at least starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel though.

I'm strongly considering removing the dampers, though I would prefer to retain the actual 117 mounts. The problem there is the difference in mounting angle on the x-member. I've never actually seen how the mounts look installed in a 126, but it appears that the two rubber mounts attach exactly perpendicular to the ground, where the 201 x-member is angled and the m103 mounts are actually angled by around 16-17 deg (facing in towards the motor). My plan right now is to build an adapter plate that basically creates a flat, level surface to bolt the 117 mounts to. The plate would be supported by a rod that bolts into the 103 mount holes, and then forward L-brackets made from angle iron that bolt to the frame rails. I'm trying to make as few welds as possible, though the brackets will be welded to the mount plates. Maybe this is overcomplicating things, but then again maybe it isnt enough....I'll have a CAD model of it in a few days assuming I get some spare time (pretty busy at the moment). The other difficulty that you can see in a couple pics is that the mounts sit 2 inches forward and around 1 inch inboard of the m103 mounting holes, so I can't directly place the mounting points right on those spots....hence the contraption I'm building

As for the A/C, I eliminated the "Klima" relay from my harness (mostly to get rid of the aux air pump), and pretty much decided to forget AC.....my 201 hasn't had it for 5 years, and right now its not really a priority for me (since I can just hop in the C43 when things get too hot). I will be bouncing around pretty warm climates for the next couple of years, but as a second car, it doesn't need to have all the creature comforts IMO.

In terms of radiator, I'm gonna try and use a 560SL radiator which I heard is a good fit. If that doesn't work, I'll do a custom rad. Now I'm just waiting for the trans bolts to arrive at the stealer so I can get started w/ the real test fitting (plus I need to add all the accessories as well)

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car