M116 W124 Wagon... 420TE.
 

I am about to build up a monster wagon....


I have sourced a wrecked complete W126 420SEL. I am going to buy it, and take the motor and trannie from that and swap it into my W124 300TE with bum motor.


The end result should be interesting... V8 Powered Wagon.

I have talked to a few friends, who think that I am nuts for doing this, but its going to happen sometime in the next few months.


I will get a few pictures of my parts car in the next few days.


Any input on this would be appreciated...


Anyone out there know what computers or parts I need from the W126 to make the motor run?

Thanks for reading.. Justin.

I have zero input, but I'd sure to love to see you put it together.

I've only ever driven one 420, and it was an SEL. I thought it was a dog! Had to work very hard to haul around that large car. Then again, I have a 300SEL.:D

Then again, you have the engine available....

A few questions before you pull the trigger on this...?
 

The question's been tossed out for you onto the W124 performance section of the other place.

You can follow the thread and see what happens.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1346786-w124-performance-thread-6.html#post2689012

Some of the 500E people might see this. You could join 500Ecstacy.com and ask those guys too.....

I don't know specifically, but it should fit - after all there is the 500E/E500 chassis.

Not only on the factory Porsche/Mercedes Benz cars, has it been done, with the 500E/E500 but I am aware of a couple of other projects, going on, with regard to private Mercedes Benz shop owners in the USA shoehorning a 500 engine into a W124 300CE.

Here's one that Satish was doing:

http://www.motorwerksgroup.com/projects.htm

A guy who owned a Mercedes Benz repair shop in San Diego was working on the same conversion (you should go and look at it if you are going down to LA to check a car for a friend) and was documenting it on Benzworld. It got delayed when he got into a Motorcycle accident or something and broke or hurt his leg.

Here is that thread (it was a W124 400CE project)

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1241274-going-v8-400ce.html?highlight=500CE

To the best of my knowledge, the HP figures, for the relevant W126 US spec cars were as follows:

300SE: 177 hp

420SEL: 201 hp

560SEL: 238 hp

(The 420 engine is a bored out 380, as the 560 is a bored out 500)

So your proposed project would bump you up some, but not too much.

I think the 420 engine could be squeezed in, but before you buy it, what about the 560 engine? That would definately give you more power.

We KNOW the 500 engine ought to fit, but a US spec engine would only be available through 1985 in California, and sticking one of them in your 1988 TE chassis, would probably not be California smog legal. (Because it would be older and might haveless smog crap on it)

Will the driveshaft of a W126 fit?

What about the rear diff? FYI the rear end off the W126 1986-1991 V8 cars for the USA was 2:47. I think they were different for the 300 W126 though.

What were they for the W124 TE?

The W126 1986-1991 cars were all 2nd gear start equipped ones. I would think a first gear start module would be preferred. I have an old Bergwerks FGS on mine and I really like it.

Would a 560 engine fit in one? To me that is a question you ought to which you should find out the answer...

An intriguiging proposition, but do your due diligence first, get all the questions answered before you do it, or all of a sudden it might get you into a deep financial money pit, I would think...

Would you be going to flare the front and rear fenders on the wagon for a true 500E/E500
look on it, or will you stay stock with the body?

You could turn that thing into a real Street Sweeper if it worked......

The reason for the 420 motor is the fact that the heads on it are shorter than those on the M117 560 motor.

I am not concerned with the horsepower gain... I am interested in the car going from 180 ftlbs of torque to 230 ftlbs of torque. May not seem like a whole lot, but its significant in a small car.

The rear end in the wagon is (I think) is 3.27. Combine that with the nice more torquier motor, it will be a nice combo.


I looked at the car earlier today, and I love how it looks stock. Maybe the flared fenders, but for now, I want to leave it stock.

I am thinking of putting fogs in the bumper though...

Justin,,,, I have toyed with the idea of a 119 motor into my TE. Seems it would be the easiest of the swaps if you had both cars in front of you. 400E's aren't really that rare or expensive any more, and everything should be easily swapped,,, except for the work on that forward firewall. I look at my wifes' 400e, and my TE all the time with the hoods up,,, hummmm.:D

I have thought about the M119 V8, but its too computerized for my likes...



There is massive rewiring there, as well as a pretty good deal of adapting computers to work in there... It would be easier to chop the nose off one, and weld it to another...


The M116 is pretty low tech... Bolt it in, adapt computer, and away we go.

I hope I dident scare you off Justin. A 1990 CIS M119 should have about the same electronics as a 89 M117.

John Roncallo

Why not a CIS 104 motor? (3.0 - from a 300CE or SL)

227hp vs. 201 for the m116. 7000 RPM redline is unique.

Looks like the mounts are the same (obviously both motors were in the same car). No fabrication, totally stock, more power, and you can stick with CIS (a good or bad thing, depending on your point of view.

What the problem? I to think of it as they are just a bunch of plug in connectors. What me worry:eek::eek::eek::eek:

John Roncallo

DANG! That looks like my Spaghetti Dinner last night...

:)



I thought about the M104... I cannot find one in my price range, same with the M119.

I picked up the whole running and limping 420SEL for 150 bucks... Cannot go wrong.

Even the 104 from a newer TE. I have not had a problem with the power of the stock engine in my TE,,, until I drive the wifes' 400. The TE still kicks some serious butt though. On the local "drag strip", I have beat a Hemi Dodge pick up and many assorted ricers. They always look at me as if to say,,, WTF was THAT ?:eek:

I am hoping for that effect with my V8 wagon.

I think you might find the RPM's on the V8 w/ a 3.27 to be a bit Much on the highway.. The general consensus is a 2.82 as the best compromise.

Jonathan

I'm currently finishing up a 5.6L m117 swap into my 190e (also a former m103). If you have any specific questions, I may be able to answer them

How much fabrication did you have to do to make it fit?

simply put, barely any. A few hammer strokes to the firewall and trans tunnel (around the valve bodies and pan), and custom motor mount arms (so that I could reuse my OEM m103 mounts and mount locations). I'll have pics this weekend that I'll post. Beyond that, I used the standard trans mount, and it bolted right up and put the motor in the correct position as well. No shortening of the driveshaft, and I just replaced the stock swaybar with one from a 500e.

So the drive shaft bolted right up to the tailshaft on the trannie without problems?



Did you use the stock fan and clutch? W201 Steeringbox?

Good questions! No, the tailshaft on the trans needs to be swapped out for the smaller 90 mm flange that is used in the 722.4 (m103) trans. It is as far as I can tell a straight swap, as the rear end of the 722.3x and 722.4 are the same aside from the flange outer diameter and also the speedo gear vice spacer bearing in the 722.3. I can't speak for the geometry of the w124, but I basically put the motor and trans in, and bolted the rear trans mount to the original location using the OE bracket. Miraculously this placed the motor in the exact location that it needed to be in (for clearance in the engine bay and trans tunnel), and after setting 5/8" clearance over the front crossmember (above the oil pan), the motor angle was also correct and the driveshaft slips right onto the pin on the trans output end. Does that make any sense? Its hard to explain things in words w/o pics....

There is not enough room to use the engine driven fan or clutch assembly. I'm going to be using an electric pusher fan on the other side of the radiator which will hopefully be sufficient (crossing fingers).

Oh yeah, not sure if I mentioned this, but you absolutely have to swap out the front swaybar for the 500e angled bar so that the 116/117 oil pan will clear. As it is, you will probably only have about an inch or so of clearance there, though it should sit slightly below the swaybar in terms of elevation.

I am putting the final touches on the motor mount arms, and assuming the m103 mounts in the same way in the 124 as it does in the 201, I would be happy to share the design with you. That would definitely save you some trouble
edit: I see in your sig that you have already done the 500e swaybar mod, so you are already one step ahead!

FWIW, there are a couple of C36 M104's on ebay right now. . .

I have 3.27, 3.06, and 2.87 diffs for my C36-powered W124 wagon, and the best daily-driver diff is the 2.87.

Good luck with the swap!

:-) neil
1988 E36T AMG ( http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/sportline )
1993 500E
1995 E320 wagon

Thanks man, its going to be interesting... I have thought long and hard about the M104, but I have the whole deal, computers and all for the V8.

I would personally much rather do the wiring on the CIS swap rather than messing around with the HFM conversion. Its almost plug and play with a MAS equipped m103, and even closer on a pre-MAS car.

Sounds like a great idea.

If there is room, go with the Euro true dual manifolds for a bit more air flow.

I'd certainly pull the heads and go through them while the motor is out. Polish the ports, three angle valve job, clean up the valve throats. I bet you could squeeze around 225-235hp from that motor no sweat.

Keep the stock US cams as they're shorter duration for better low speed TQ.

Guys, I have to ask, but why not drop an SBC 350 into it. Just because it's an MB engine, it's not going to make it any less of a Frankensteins car. At least with an SBC 350, parts are cheap and easy to come by.

I wouldn't use a Gen I or II small Chev. The amount of power that can be had from the Gen III+ motors is beyond insane. You can get 360rwhp from a puny 5.3 with a mild cam and all bolt ons.

Size....



I dont know if a GM motor will fit...


I know a 420 will!

I think resale wil be a lot better with an all benz rod.

The istallation will be simplified by the fact that many of the parts needed will be available from the factory since they offered the v8 in that chassis just not in the wagon. this will make maintenance easier too.

Tom W

Keeping the "pedigree" is just so much more elegant, especially if you want to have it serviced, and of course re-sale.

I have a M104 AMG powertrain in my W124 wagon, along with 500E calipers, master cylinder, brake booster, swaybars, and springs, so when I have on occassion dropped it off to the dealer or my local tech, they don't freak-out, and they usually have the parts on hand.

:-) neil

My indy mechanic said he will come in Sundays to work on my car when the shop is closed...


He doesnt want people to know that he services an oddball.

If you do a really good job, most of his customers would never know it's an oddball. Thats the only reason I want to hide my big air filters.

I have a 117 sitting on my garage floor. What measurements do you need.

John Roncallo

Status ?

:-) neil

On hold. I am buying a second wagon to mod so that I dont lose the use of my nice wagon.

Keep us updated on that. The wagon you are already running is a gem, I know that car well.

Well, I have two wagons in my name. I have the blue one which every one knows and is in my sig. I also have a white one thats currently in storage.



The white ones got a blown headgasket, and is gonna go under the knife for a motor transplant. I am currently thinking M117 560 motor. That, or another M103 with a 5 speed....



The blue wagons gonna keep its M103, but its gonna get boosted. I am thinking of a supercharger. And a 5 speed.

Status ?

:-) neil

I got two more wagons the 90 and the 95 in my sig. Both have blown motors, making them perfect for the project..... Just been really busy with school starting back up....