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Old 12-18-2013, 06:52 AM
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is there two ways of forced induction

Reading thru forums I still have a hard time understanding way of adding forced induction.
One way I understand is to go with larger injectors,and some device to trigger injectors.What does the old PCM do,is it disconnected from injectors.
The other way that I hope I read right,is to leave PCM and injectors alone,and add 2 injectors post throttle body,and a device to fire them?What fires them both,and how does it get a signal?
So all I need is a single exhaust manifold with turbo charger,and platte,a inter cooler with plumbing,blow off valve or (waste gate turbo?)Oil tap into fuel pressure gauge outlet,hole in oil pan for drain?.Device to fire added injectors.
Estimated cost for a device.I will have to change exhaust route for turbo to.I really want to do this instead of using NOS.I have to add a split second,or a megasquirt.As this post is my list.

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Last edited by oldsinner111; 12-18-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:20 AM
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Any time you add boost you need to increase the enrichment.
Enrichment is increased by adding more fuel to the mix.
It can't be random as it must be controlled.
Not enough enrichment and the result is detonation and engine damage.

The control is the most important part and the method can be by controlling the individual cylinder injectors or adding additional injectors.
The control adds fuel base on RPM and boost pressure inputs.
The enrichment MAP is then programmed and fixed based on the AFR readings created by the inputs.
Best to do it on a dyno.

Both methods achieve enrichment by increasing the pulse/firing of the injector.

If you stay with low boost 3-5 psi, you may be able to get away with an unmodified stock control unit.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:46 AM
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thinking of max 8psi

From what I've read 8 psi is the cutoff for stock head gaskets and bolts.I'd like to stay with a 100hp to 150 hp.I heard my hfm nothing can be programmed into it.Also I'm running a time of 14.6 in the 1/4 mile,will a turbo slow me down because of lag?
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Last edited by oldsinner111; 12-18-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:47 AM
yzn yzn is offline
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As said above you need fuel enrichment method,
The easiest one is to swap your injectors with a bigger ones this won’t be ideal but still better than nothing, another easy way is to put FMU right after the FPR this method can work with low boost but like the bigger injectors idea it’s not perfect. I think it could work well on your car with HFM ecu if you only running low boost.

A better idea is to put extra injectors (maybe 2) controlled by device beside your PCM (like splitsecond which seems popular here, you can also use megasquirt as an extra injector controller), what it needs is a RPM signal and manifold pressure reading.
Another good idea is to install a piggyback ecu to just control your existence injectors (like AEM).
Or have a programmable ECU to control only the injectors (Fuel only), similar to the piggyback ecu idea.
To get a good AFR reading you don’t need a dyno, a wideband oxygen sensor can give you that.

The right way for getting all Force induction potential is to control both the FUEL and IGNITION, with ignition control you can get real power gain, with piggyback use for fuel and spark, or fully programmable ecu (like megasquirt, VEMS,Link, haltech,etc….)

A basic turbo kit sould include:
1-Turbo (suitable for your engine and your power goals)
2-turbo Exhaust manifold or adapter for turbo.
3- Wastegate to control boost (external or internal)
4- Oil pressure line and Oil drain line to the sump
5- Intake plumping and intercooler
6- A way to fuel enrichment.
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:29 AM
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thank you yzn, i will try and buy a part each month,and next year buy a low mileage motor and fab up everything before switching engines.I may have to use a flat intercooler as a w140 I think lack room for a front mount intercooler.what is a fmu?
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:49 PM
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FMU is fuel management unit, it's rising rate fuel pressure regulator which raise the fuel pressure relative to boost pressure, a 10:1 fmu raise the fuel 10 psi for every 1 psi boost, for example if your car has 40psi fuel pressure, when running 5psi boost a 10:1 fmu it will raise the fuel pressure to 40+5x10=90psi, in simple terms increasing the fuel pressure make the injectors acts as bigger injectors (increase flow). as i mentioned before this it's not ideal but for low boost (like 0.5bar of boost) it's better than nothing.

this book, will be a good start for turbo system
Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems by Corky Bell

Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems (Engineering and Performance): Corky Bell: 9780837601601: Amazon.com: Books

and Performance Fuel Injection Systems by Matt Cramer
which is great book that i highly recommend it for better understanding of EFI tuning with simple explanation

Performance Fuel Injection Systems HP1557: How to Design, Build, Modify, and Tune EFI and ECU Systems.Covers Components, Sensors, Fuel and Ignition ... Tips, Aftermarket ECUs, and EFI Convers: Matt Cramer, Jerry Hoffmann: 9781557885579: Amazon.com: B
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:14 AM
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it seems like with a mercedes there no turn key package,and if there is its thousands of dollars.I will now search for a comfortable car that has kits all ready made.A dern Honda for $500 you can get a package..Maybe I'll try getting low enough to get in a Accord.
I could try a kompressor Benz but modifying it to take more boost,and getting rid of safety device's is hard too.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:51 AM
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If you like German cars then consider an older 1984-1991 BMW E30 3 Series.

You won't have to drive a ricer and there is a lot of aftermarket performamce parts available.

T04E T3 T4 9pc Turbo Kit turbocharger WG Manifold Intercooler 84 91 BMW E30 325 | eBay
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1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:06 AM
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thank you I really hate hondas.I thought all 90 model BMWs burn to the ground over wiring
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsinner111 View Post
thank you I really hate hondas.I thought all 90 model BMWs burn to the ground over wiring
The E30 is the 80's BMW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(E30)

BMW 3 Series 325ES | eBay

I bought new a Henna Red 1985 325I coupe..very solid, well built and basic...
The 3 series is more like the W201 190E with minimal electronics.
Easy to find with manual transmission if you prefer over automatic.
Some even stock with Recaro's and suspension like the EBAY listing I linked you to...

Ed A.
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:41 AM
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well thank you looking at kits for 98,and 99 325i. I think that will be my goal.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:28 AM
yzn yzn is offline
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No 500$ ebay kit will be complete, actually no ebay kit is complet. any turbo installation will end up with costing thousands of dollars.
e30 are great car for a starter
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:52 AM
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thats true I'm finding out $1600 more like it and a brand name turbo is best.From looking and comparing BMW parts,I'd still be better doing my own car.I will gather all the used parts I can,and drop a lower mileage engine in next year.Over 200,000 miles sometime next year,I don't trust to push engine.I'm running nitrous right now,but really miss the boost as a tank doesn't last long.I could use boost plenty of times and not racing either.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:22 AM
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two more question what manifold to look for for a single turb.2 what size turbo.thinking of buying used garrett t3 t4
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:00 PM
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You can fabricate a manifold or purchase one from Pumpish/Roman:

turbobandit.com

By the time you get it to the USA and clear customs it will be close to $1500.00 for just the manifold.

Realistically by the time you have everything you need parts wise you'll be out of pocket close to $5K...add labor and it's costly...

Not a DIY project unless you get familiar with how to achieve consistent enrichment under boost....

Ed A.

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1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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