My w124 M103 e300 finally has the mosselman kit istalled
 

Yup finally did it, had the kit for years yet never had the guts to go through with it. Now its almost done
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdZaz-R5IJw
any ways can any one advise me where to find forged pistons for this engine?
site links highly needed.

Not good starting it and running the turbos without a filtered intake air.
Pull in a bit of dirt and you lose your compressor.

Why do you want forged pistons?

i am doing a rebuild anyways so i thought forged will keep trouble away.
Do u know for what HP the original pistons are good for? will they take like 0.55 bar boost?
check this by the way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDFJZTeKbR4

If you only plan on running .5 bar of boost, your fine with a stock bottom end. Forged pistons are a good way to go but compression ratio is a more important factor when running boost. Your stock M103 is at 9.2:1 CR which should handle 8 psi without any problems. The stock pistons are a very tough cast alloy and will handle a good beating. Don't waste your money or time on pistons unless you are looking for 1 bar + boost.

Then i wont man, will install a new orginal set with all that needs to go with the rebuild, boost it to 0.5. As u can see from the vid traction is an issue on our roads.
thanx man

Is their something wrong with the current pistons? I wouldn't consider replacing them unless they are cracked or extremely worn from infrequent oil changes. Now, If your cylinders need to be bored and honed that's a different issue. I have personally taken apart a few M103's with almost 300,000 miles on them and all the pistons have come out looking great.

I guess my question is what makes you believe the bottom end needs any work at all? Bad compression?

man during the kit install and while the oil pan was off we did check the big, small bearings and the rods and all were in v good condition. Thing is the engine crankcase vent has some smoke puffing out on high revs. So thats y i want to rebuild.

All forced induction engines are going to have "some" blow-by. Now if a smoke screen is gushing out, that's probably not a good sign. I'd suggest you run a compression test to see if your rings are up to par. If you really want to tear down the engine and rebuild it, go ahead, it definitely wouldn't hurt. However, you may be trying to fix something that's working just fine.

No problem with the .55 bar boost on a stock engine in sound condition.
The turbos supplied in the Mosselman kit were fixed at around .5 bar boost.
Did you install the full kit including the supplied electronics?
You want to make sure through the Mosselman engine/fuel management that you set your air fuel ratios to around .85 Lambda as you don't want to lean out under boost.

There was an article in the August 17, 1987 Autoweek written about the man who did my recent TurboTechnics install.
Willy Mosselman stated in that article that the USA installer made the M103-12V go faster then he could.
With a 3.64:1 rear the 0-60 was 4.96 and the 0-100 was 11.98.

My TT 300CE M103-12V TT with the stock 3.07:1 rear runs 0-60 in the low to mid 5 second range and two weeks ago in 40F ran a 14.39/98.68 1/4 mile with no traction off the line.
With traction I should see mid 13's and 100mph +

Who needs a V8 when you can have a 3.0L torque monster ?

thanx guys, will keep u posted for sure
did u check the vids?
car is promising to be very fast.

Ed, you should get some wide rubber on your 300CE. I tried full throttle power braking with my car a few nights ago just before moving to Toronto and it was very stable launching at 5000rpm. Pretty good hook up, not much sideways wriggling. Only starts spinning the tyres above 4000. I'm running 255 rear and 225 front. I really need to get the GT25 turbos on. These T2 units mean that I can't actually rev past 5000 so I can only do 0-100km/h in just under 6 seconds (in 20*C heat) currently. With another 2500rpm to play with I'll be able to slash at least a second off that time.

BJ

I run 225/40-18 Falken FK-452 all around.
Great all around tire for road use, but lacking in ability to accelerate from a dead stop.

The day was cold and windy and I had dropped the pressure to 24PSI hoping for traction.
First run tried to launch at 2000 rpm and smoked both tires for about an 1/8 mile until they hooked up.
Results were a 19.721, but an encouraging 89.83 mph trap speed.
The 14.392/98.68 pass was basically idling off the line and trying to maintain traction.

When it warms up a bit I'll try with 32psi and varying launch techniques.

What brand tires are you running and what width rims do you have the 255's on ?
Did you roll the wheel arch for clearance?

Ed A.

Guys, what HP numbers do your cars have? and what boost are you running guys? Both of you :)
by the way one of the KKK K16 tubos needs a rebuild :(, tomorow i'll be ordeing a rbuild kit and a tuboshaft from Melett (UK).
Thanx guys

I run 14psi of boost and I was making 272rwhp prior to breaking the new engine in. Once the new turbos are on and I can rev higher, I would expect around 350rwhp at the same boost and 400 or so with an overboost setting. The torque will be immense. :cool:

I think I've got Bridgestones on 17x7.5 up front and Sumitomos on 17x8.5 at the back. Had to roll the fenders all around and run negative camber on the rears.

Initial pulls on a Mustang load dyno was 195 HP / 220 lbft torque versus stock baseline of 135 HP / 145 lbft torque ( 1988 published figures for a USA spec M103-12V was 177 HP / 188 lbft torque so a 30% drive train loss )
Twin Garrett T2's set at a fixed 7 PSI +/- .

Hy guys, it's been a while... nice to see so manny projects finished and on the way...
How did you manage the igniton part of the build? turbotechnics, mosselman or custom... Fuel mangement is important, and as I've uderstood, below 1bar of boost, the CIS-E is still upto it, with a piggy-back support. But what about ignition?

welcome back, well been calling Mosselman shop on regular basis, and been told (and proven to be true when i drove the car) that since the compression is just 9.2 and since i am only running 0.45 bar boost, the ignition as stock is ok. just set the R16 to either "7" or S position, 1 is a big no no, ping will occur at high revs just check my vid, u can hear it when i hit 5500 rpm in second gear, even on part throttle. as for fuel, a map sensor with a small microchip on it thats set to switch the EHA to flow more when boost is on is enough, tomorrow ill be tuning the car with a wideband, so ill let u know the exact settings ill be using.

BTW i doubt the CSI-E can cope with more than 0.6 bar boost, i know that VW golfs with a somewhat similar system hit trouble at 0.7 bar. but maybe mercs are a bit better.
will be costly to find out :)

I woud like to test it first, see if it can hold at 8psi, on stock, with piggy-back... I'm still researching the aftermarket systems, for higher boost down the road. Megasquirt is temting, with Edis... Will have to see how well it handles in the first stage!
Anyway, really nice to have someone to talk to about this.

as promised this is to update you all regarding my kit install.
One of the turbos has been completely rebuilt with a new turbo shaft and a Major rebuild kit bought from Melett company from the UK, this turbo also had a stuck wastegate which was replaced by one from another turbo i managed to locate locally.I haven't managed to thoroughly test the car yet, but during my short runs i can confirm that sofar the lowest boost i can run is 0.5 bar in first and second (wastegates set to maximum opening by the adjustment screw), as for third gear i still have no runs to check if the boost will stick to 0.5 bar or if it will increase to 0.6+.
I fear that that the wastegate of the second turbo is not functioning properly, that is it might be stuck open, as i have the feeling the turbos have more lag than they should.
This install has turned out to be one headache sofar, and i know its not due to the original design of the kit but rather to the age of the turbos and the fact that they were not used for a very long time.
I still have no firm data if the fueling is enough, but on a sad note the car sofar is not as fast as i want it, and now since the boost is much lower than when i first drove the car (video link in the first page of this thread) power is also less :(. i still have a few ideas regarding the fine tuning. i just hope it turns out worth it.

really sad to hear that (read...), and hope it all works out!
these things are never easy, so press on...
looking forward to some pull vids and numbers man, fingers crossed!

thanx, vids coming soon. on monday ill be testing the fuel and timing setups so i guess i'll have a vid showing some pulls. any ways i might opt to install a dumpvalve and set it to bleed boost above 0.55 bar, that way i can work the turbos abit harder so they provide more puff low down for better pickup.
let me know what u think....

Sorry guys for not providing vids yet :( . Drove the car yesterday and power is on the ok side, strangely the turbos can hardly be heard unless your going full on. Any ways I can confirm that the EHA ie CSI-E system can hold on boost level of 0.55 bar with ease which is nice. On a sad note seems I blew my old and tired head gasket (to be honest I never had faith it would last this far). Any ways will know in the coming days of whats wrong exactly.

Argh guys, been pushed till next Monday before we can have any work done on the car. My mechanic also provides rally support to some teams in the Middle East, so now he’s in Jordan for this weekends WRC event. Good for him bad for me Lol.

Piece of advice.
The tuning of a turbocar should either be done by someone familiar with them and preferably on a chassis dyno.
There´s tremendous amount of both power and function to be had from this.
No matter if the system is old.

When it comes to headgasket,stay stock i say.
Point being that the HG under these circumstances are sort of an engine life saver.
IOW,if things go astray the HG is easy and cheap enough to change in contrast to "other options".

One thing that can be of advantage tho is swapiing the OEM headbolts for more "mundane",common 12.9 ones.
Reason being that the OEM headbolts indeed lose a little torq over time,and installing 12.9 bolts will set YOU in control of head torq.Ie;you need to retorq after run in,and that way can be guaranteed that headtorq stays as set over time.
I´ve personaly seen OEM merc stretch ones losen at as little as 40Nm.

thanks ur input man.
On a side note, been driving my dad's 1984 w126 500sel euro and i must say i am impressed. this car has entertaining handling for starters and boy is it ready to pick up its heavy ass and sprint. especially with its long diff (2.24) highways is where it shines easily topping 130-140 mph on a relaxed rpm. too bad it needs a petrol station to run though, been driving this car for just over a month now and it might end up setting me back a fortune in fuel bills :)

Don't know your guys' thoughts on copper head gaskets, but there's a place, headgasket.com, says he'll make them for only about $110 for a 104 engine, IIRC. Seems to be pretty respectable. And obviously the price is pretty competitive.

As "Racing" said i'd rather have the HG blow than any other major part,
but yes i have heard and seen them used with stunning results.
Thing with copper HG's: copper is soft and can withstand the heat, thus usally its seals perfectly and sometimes so perfectly if ur setup is lean it wont leak or burn and u wont know before ur pistons have shrunk :)
But on a good tune they help.

Nice work guys. Enjoy it. That Mosselmen kit seams very well thought out twin turbos on a 3.0 liter with under 1 bar boost must be very responsive and it all seams to fit in one nice neat professional looking package.

John Roncallo

Well today my mechanic got back from the WRC Jordan event, and he got round to checking my car. So turns out ( so far and fingers crossed:) ) nothing is wrong with my engine's head gasket, but turns out my radiator is completely clogged up and it had to come off and sent to a specialist. We also checked the spark plugs of each cylinder and all seem fine but running slightly lean. anyways tomorrow i get to take the car home :) and we can start proper fuel tuning and set up.
will keep u posted guys, and thanks for all the help and advise.

Ask him to perform a leakdown to get some sort of diagnostic status.
Always a good idea.

thanks again, i just hope he has the equipment. any ways earlier in this thread i mentioned that blow by from the pvc issue, well now that i have dropped the boost to 0.5-0.55 bar this issue has completely gone. i mean i drove the car for like 30 min and even then with oil all hot no blow-by could be seen.
any ways i know i a going abt this all the wrong ways i can, thing is i work from 8 to 4 so all i end up havin is like 2 hrs at the end of a long day. and my mechanic being a friend kinda thinks its ok not have any work done except on few occasions.
i tell u never befriend ur mechanic, just as much as u dont want ur girl befriending her gynecologist-doc, lol silly comparison i know. well its been a long month to say the least.

--
Jay

Jay.
The blow-by issue is perfectly normal for a boosted engine.
Altho a remedy we use on high end boosted ones,might be an idea to ponder at least...
Check to see if you can increase crankcase ventilation area one way or another.

What we routinely do on the valvers is to open up the OEM fitting in the block for a mech pump just after the chain register as well as drill the OEM PCV fittings out as much as we can.

Point being that large area PCV outlets is a sort of mantra with boosted engines to me.
Stands to common reason that as dynamic compression ratio goes up....so does blowby.
If you opt to combat crankcase pressure i´m sure you´ll notice a couple of things.
Oil consumption goes down,like in drops like a stone,and power goes up accordingly.

Just one of those small things that most people that boost their engines never get told about and that makes a difference.

man u r a wealth of info and help. Let me fully test drive the car first the coming 2 days. Might send u links to vids showing the engine and how things are running.
Thanks man

Finally I have some good news, fingers crossed, turns out all the smoke is coming from the second turbo, the one I did not rebuild. It seems with no downpipes and thus no back pressure the turbo will not smoke no matter how u rev it. Just when the full exhaust is in place it will smoke. Any ways instead of ordering a new rebuild kit at 300 usd delivered, I did what I should have done ages ago. I moved my lazy ass and search every scrap place I know, and be hold I found a clean lovely kkk k16 turbo for a mere 50 usd. Yes its 50 usd now that’s cheap will be going back this weekend to get my self another 2 spares, just incase **** happens later on.
any ways, today I will pick up the car to start proper fuel setup. Fingers crossed again

guys, can i use injectors from the w126 560 to give me more fuel flow on my w124 turbo 300?
if no do u know of any larger injectors i can use on my car's ke jet sys?
(sorry for not posting any new updates the past few days due to the fact that lebanon was on in all kinds of trouble and on the brink of a civil war, dunno if we r on any of ur news, things seem to be cooloing down now thankfully and hope normal life will return by monday)

Do you have the fuel controller that was supplied with the Mosselman kit ?
If you do, it's adjustable and will allow you to enrich under boost.

Just using larger injectors will not give you the result you want as the EHA basically is controlling the amount of fuel to the distributor.

Thing is i dont have the mosselman controller, but i can change the flow of the EHA by changing the signal it gets, but i am worried that wont be enough for high rpm

Thing is i dont have the mosselman controller, but i can change the flow of the EHA by changing the signal it gets, but i am worried that wont be enough for high rpm

That is exactly what the Mosselman controller did, except it was adjustable to obtain the correct AFR at boost RPM's.
It piggy backed to the stock ECU.

The Turbotechnics like I run resolved the enrichment by adding two additional injectors between the air valve and the throttle valve.
Control is with a stand alone unit so none of the stock settings are modified.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...o_bits_039.jpg


Stock fuel control and EHA doesn't know the engine has any boost...all the enrichment occurs downstream. Main signal for these two injectors comes from a MAP sensor.

I find this extremely practical as the vehicle will pass any required emissions tests, start up quickly, idle smoothly.

Ok, let me explain: for the time being i have a switch installed in place of the audio fader behind the gearbox leaver which i use to trigger the eha to a preset value. IE in off mode the EHA functions normally and in on mode the EHA flows more.
I am building an electronic unit that will trigger the EHA to flow at different levels depending on boost by means of a MAP sensor.
What i still dont know, and hope u do: does the mosselman unit triger the EHA using boost level only or does it read RPM too?
keeping in mind that i keep the control of the ecu over the EHA at all times IE all i do is offset the whole mapped values if u get what i mean.
Thank you for your patience,

Guys, after the installation of the turbo kit my auto box is now shifting harshly under light throttle even without any boost showing on the gauge. while on higher revs and more throttle the box shifts too smoothly, worryingly smoothly to the point that its slipping, but under a full revup shift the box is fine. keeping in mind that i have installed something similar to the attached.
Do you have any advise???

ok, today and despite the war we have here i had the silliness of mind to go and install the wide band lambda. turns out that no matter how much i open the EHA (mid rpms lambda reads 0.6 at some settings) but at 5000 rpm fuel injectror distributor doesnt fuel enough and the lamda reads 1 to 1.2 by 6500rpm. thing is u can feel that by 5000 the engine looses power. so now first thing i need to do is read fuel pressuer to see what can be done
but i need ur help for ideas on how to flow for fuel, i already have the 2 pump system on my car, will a third pump do much difference

help with any ideas u have
thanx

You should be reading about .85 Lambda under boost to prevent detonation and get max power.

I still run the stock dual pumps as they provided sufficient fuel pressure.

What fuel pressure are you seeing....did you check the total full supply loop including the return.

Unfortunately i still havent measured fuel pressure and installing the gauge wont be easy as the the top mount intercooler makes for a tight fit. I will do so on
Friday as i am taking a day off from work. But can i bother u with an explanation regarding what u mentioned abt full supply loop test?

I will be testing the use of the cold start injector at boost above 0.4 bar to see how it goes, so what do u think RBYCC? will it work?
as u can see i am still looking for the quickest way out here:) and its all due to lack of time.

If you look at your fuel pressure regulator it has a return line to the tank.
The regulator if working maintains between 5,3 - 5.5 bar ( 77-78 psi ).
Internal is a spring loaded diaphragm that returns excess fuel to the tank during rapid load change.

If the spring in the regulator is weak, you may be seeing a pressure drop under boost.

Are you going to completely bypass / disconnect the stock control for the cold start injector and use it as an additional injector ?

yes my friend, at least for the time being as for testing to see if it will be enough. so any thoughts?
I have a very good Bosch trained mechanic (in 1998 he was ranked no.4 world wide by bosch for repairing injection systems including cis) i still haven't used his resources due to the fact that he is extremely busy. but i think he might have some ideas, maybe installing a larger fuel distributor like the one on the audi 200 turbo which uses exact same injectors as in my car. i am in favor of such an idea as it will greatly cut working on building electronic boards.