1985 560 SL Retuning the Detuned motor
 

Have an 86 560SL, and I understand it is slow because the U.S. models were detuned down to 227hp, when it is a 280hp engine anywhere else.

How did they detune, and how can I retune?

Any answers to this question yet?

Mostly cams pistons exhaust. I would also imagine computers and ignition modules.

What Roncallo said... Manifolds (tri y's), hotter cams (ECE/code 822 bits) as well as 10 over 9-1 pistons. EZL and KE's are as also specific to the high output engine. Even the EHA was tuned differently.

Jonathan

I wonder, to save u all the hastle of getting everything reworked and your car off the road for a long time. Can u swap the heads from a 380, onto the 560 or something similar? it will still have the reliability of the stock engine, just more efficient. Much the same as putting a 350 head onto a 450, it increases the compression a fair bit, and dont the smaller engines have a slightly wilder cam then the larger ones?

You Might be able to (not sure about the early to late 116 to 117 issues..) but you'll have far smaller valves for sure which will hurt thing quite a bit.

I think I have a set of 380 heads sitting around and I know I have some 560 short blocks..I'll need to see if they'll fit. One could see about fitting the 560 valves to the 380 head..
I'll also need to CC each head or try and find the info in the WIS as anything much past 10.5 maybe 11 to 1 and we'll have octane requirement issues.
Another thought is if the compression is Really high we can change the cam profile to bleed some of that off... Always something to think about!

Jonathan

Anything new on this ? Has anyone swapped a 6.9 into anything else ? Do the 6.3/6.9 heads and cams interchange ?

No.. I'm pretty happy w/ the setup I've manged thus far...

Also, realized I gave the 380 heads to the scrap man... I'm just getting started on building a 6L m117 w/ solid lifters w/ stand alone.

M100 stuff couldn't be any more different...m100 bits are entirely their own universe.

Jonathan

So, if one were going for the used Benz with the most potential for sheer accelleration and ability/availability to modify for speed, which one is it ?:grim::deadhorse::nos::alien::sneaky::beerchug:

I'd argue 500E..twin cam heads are mighty handy... It's biggest problem is ASR and non LSD diff, but the former can be tended too and we're working on the latter.
But that aside, there is no reason why one shouldn't be able to pull 500+ HP out of a 6L m119..it's $$$ but it can be done!

Next to that I'd say a 560 or if 190 16V as there are a few of those running around 400HP on FI.

You have less to work w/ when starting on an SL...plus a bit harder time w/ packaging and finding upgraded suspension parts etc..

The 6L I mentioned I'm figuring 350+...but we'll see!

Jonathan

I would say that the stock m104 with FI is good to 400 hp with a proper tune all day long. I have talked to the guy that owns that c36 that was twin turbo'ed and written up a long time ago. He is now making 421 rwhp without problems. Which is around the power I am going for on low compression pistons. I would still love to do a 560 sec with a supercharger or a turbo set up for a drag race car. Or even better a w123 coupe with a 560 motor and FI. Just love the styling. For street cars I love the W124, w201, or w202.

Will twin cam heads swap between engine series (560,6.9 )and is/are those the same as 4-valve ?

Well, none of those you listed are twin cam.. So if the question is will twin cam heads swap ie, 117 AMG 32V and 119 I say no..having compared 117 heads, block and gasket w/ a 119 set of heads/block and gasket there are too many Major differences..ie, stud locations, stud angles, water/oil passages not lining up or not existing from one to the other etc..

If you want twin cam, putting a 119 in your car would be the way to go..but actually, a twin cam engine will not fit in an SL.. They will fit in 126's, 124's..no 201's though.. I would recommend making a 6L m119...they're good fun:)

Jonathan

6 litre MOtor? Buy AMG heads
 

What is a 6L motor and is it the usual motor for the 560 SEL. Is it AMG? I have a 500 SEC Euro, can I buy AMG heads to go on it from your company?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...2&d=1221537779

Are you referring to the twin cam heads? If so, no...those would be monunmentally expensive to produce.

However, if you wanted a 6L M117 (5.6 w/ 100mm bore) and AMG ported heads, solid lifter AMG spec cams (or even more radical as I would recommend) then we can do that w/o issue!

Jonathan

Dual Cam
 

I was curious about the dual cam heads but heard they were expensive. How much for the 6L M119? What kind of horse power are we talking about?

Yes, they are expensive and somewhat prone to issues, @ least when compared to the M119 setup.

I'll PM w/ costs, HP w/ proper stand alone should be in excess of 430HP, and if we do things such as mechanical lifters and get Aggressive with the cam I don't see why 450+ would be out of the question.

Jonathan

this sounds sweet
 

this sounds sweet, I would like to get it up to proper super car status. I could drive down to the US and get it all done this summer?

Absoloutly!

Drop me a line via blueridgemb@gmail.com or feel free to give a ring, 404-805-1357 and we could lay out a plan to meet your goals/desires for your Benz.

Jonathan

Jonathan have you actually tried an M119 into a 107. I briefly considered it for my car prior to the V-12. With out taking careful measurements it did look to be too wide. I also got a quick look at the later 3 valve engines and it looked like that may be a go. But I have no real hard evidence for either.

I found, since I don't work at a shop where I had access to cars, for the V12 installation the only way for me to get measurements I could trust was to buy the car. I've always suspected that I would have to do the same for the M119. The V-12 as far as engine swaps go, fits into a 107 like it was made to be there in the first place. Hooking it up and getting it to work with everything is another story.

The V-12 is extremely healthy and very nice and that is what I want out of that car and it will probably always be my personal engine of choice. But from a mass production point of view the M119 offers the most bang for the buck for anyone considering a swap and keeping the car all Mercedes.

If I wanted to go a little more on the fire breathing dragon side, I could build something else like a 107 with an E55 AMG engine.

No, I know it won't fit in the 107...mainly as AMG found fitting their twin cam engine was impossible.

The M120 is a Very cool engine..taking one of the best I6's and strapping two on a common crank makes all the sense in the world.. What I think would be Quite a bit of fun would be to treat the heads and cams to C36 spes, lighten the internals and see what kind of fun that would be;-)

The M113's are interesting w/ FI, but the SOHC 3 valve head just never did much for me.. The new 156 63 engines are Far more appealing from an engineering stand point..AMG/Mercedes went back to the M119 architecture and did Everything that someone would want to do to their M119 were funds unlimited!!

One day they'll get cheap and hopefully there will still be some gas around to dump in the intake!

Jonathan