A question please
I may be showing my ignorance of racing and the regulations that govern them but......while watching Speedvision touring car and Gt racing this pm, my 12 year old nephew asked me point blank ...If your mercedes is so great why don't they win any races or for that matter even race? ...As my face turned a dark shade of red I had to reply that I didn't really know..All the fields seem top heavy with Bimmers and all kinds of rice burners...but no Mercedes in sight? ...I was at a loss...I really don't know the answer...Help please...I need a good answer that will help me save face with a unduly curious 12 year old...Thanks from one embarrassed uncle.

Hell, I'll give your nephew a ride in my slightly modded 380SE, which, while not being really fast, is plenty quick, to show him "what Benzes are all about".

Anyone willing to give this kid a demo ride in a 500E/E55 AMG?

-Sam

They race, and win! Show your nephew the pics under the car section of the site sponsers cars and lap pics; look up Dean Albrechts Need2Speed Silver State 500E; go to an F1 page to see pics of the MB cars; Visit the MB world site under the links above to see the racing heritage and the silver arrows; Look up the history of the EVO.

There are probably 1000 Sake Sleds for each MB Reich Rocket, and 5 Bimmers for each MB racer. The MBs get lost in the crowd.

__________________
John

2003 Firemist Red/grey leather SL 500
2015 Palladium Silver/black mbtex GLK 350
1987 Smoke Silver/burgundy mbtex 300E Sportline (SOLD)

Click to see 87 300E

[

Anyone willing to give this kid a demo ride in a 500E/E55 AMG?

-Sam [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the offer of a demo ride, but you miss my point or Kevin's point.... great marks prove themselves in competition in the public arena ..not some flat out ride down the interstate...Like Hemingway is quoted ....all is game except "auto racing"..thats where the mark is proven....beating our chest about our 16 vavlers.... AMG's...500E's/E55's is not competition on the roadcourse against machines and drivers of equal abilities...the real test...I love my Mercedes but in the public racing arena BMW and the rice burners are kicking our xxx.. But thanks for the offer of a demo...its not the answer I was looking for.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JCE
[B]They race, and win! Show your nephew the pics under the car section of the site sponsers cars and lap pics; look up Dean Albrechts Need2Speed Silver State 500E; go to an F1 page to see pics of the MB cars; Visit the MB world site under the links above to see the racing heritage and the silver arrows; Look up the history of the EVO.

Please lets not go to the F1 page ....at least the last two years, for theres to much Ferrari red there...besides the McLarens are as much English as German design.... has dropped the ball in F1...sure we MB owners have the greatest winning racing "heritage" of any mark with the exception of Porsche for outright wins and lets not forget my all time favorite MB the AMG Klasse1 of 1996....and the Sauber C-8 of 1985?" a one year wonder" and the EVO from the little 1.8 to the 2.5-16 EVO2 in what ?/1991....lets not dwell on history for as the saying goes in todays business world.... its not what you did for me yesterday but what have you done for me today.....and speaking of the international racing scene let us not forget the CLK-GTR-CLR's of 97.....I stand by my point that there our no competitive MB's in todays major racing events..I'm talking cars you can recognize on the streets everyday....we are no longer in the era of Rosemeyer and the W '25's and "165" Silver Arrows...The younger people of today don't give MB the respect they deserve...though most aren't into history...outside of F1( which isn't the real world anyway) show me one MB that is competitive on the world stage...Sebring? Daytona?Rallying?Leman's?Austrailian touring cars or even the German Touring Cars...MB can do better...But I still love my MB... respect are not.

I didn't know you only wanted current events, or only pro races. On the pro front, all the marques, including Ferrari, have had bad years. Many Manufacturers have had years or decades that they didn't race. That hasn't stopped amatuer or semi-pro racers from competing in local events. And it doesn't erase the past, which must be used as a benchmark for the future.

The current lessons are: "MB, you ain't doing it right". They have had that lesson in the past, and learned from it. This time they may decide to do better, or they might decide to quit racing. That decision will be as much a function of corporate politics and public image concerns as of track records! A number of Marques have quit racing while they were winning. (And subsequently found that not all R&D can be done on a computer!).

quote.....I stand by my point that there our no competitive MB's in todays major racing events..I'm talking cars you can recognize on the streets everyday... What cars do you recognize on the street from professional track racing? Those Winston/NASCAR entries may look like something you would see on the street, but only from grater than 50 yards. Up close all the smoke and mirrors that hide a custom built race car cease to fool the buying public!

ALL human endeavors (including MB's race team) involve faulty decisions and dead ends as part of the process. Ask Dr. Rowland or Dr. Salk how many wrong decisions and wasted 'seasons' were spent before they got their Nobel prizes. Or better yet, ask the great scientists with ground breaking research that never got a Nobel prize because of politics or because their work was too early to be properly applied or interpreted, or they had to work within an artificial set of rules that limited their work.

Time and circumstances happen to all, and Entropy winds the clock!

__________________
John

2003 Firemist Red/grey leather SL 500
2015 Palladium Silver/black mbtex GLK 350
1987 Smoke Silver/burgundy mbtex 300E Sportline (SOLD)

Click to see 87 300E

..., Mercedes is in none of GT or Touring car races that are on Speedvision, FoxSports, ESPN, etc etc.

Seems kind of silly, but apparently no private teams who can afford to play in this big $$ sport feel a Mercedes CLK would be a "winner" in the US GT series???

You will only find Mercedes racing in Germany in the DTM series I believe, and I have yet to see one such race anytime this year! After the Mercedes CLR-GTR Le Mans flip a year ago, I guess the PR guys traded in their balls for ......., well you get the point. I mean if your car runs into a development problem do you pack up your toys and go home never to be seen again? What kind of message does that sent to the World, it says to me "I'm a quitter". The bad PR had been done the week the flips occurred, packing it up for good is not closure to me.

IMHO, Mercedes needs to get into the European and American Le Mans Series and compete with Audi's unstoppable recent effort in the prototype class and also fight it out with the American Panoz effort as well, that's good racing!

What a shame they have not realized this!

Mercedes needs to get a grip on its history and racing roots and actually COMMIT to MotorSports in all areas, not farming its F1 efforts out to engine builders like the very respectable Illmor. BMW took on the F1 challenge last year and already have the most powerful engine this year, all done by themselves. And Ferrari, forget about it.... they do the whole car (chassis and engine) in house, what a task that must be to do that and kick everyone's ass at the same time!

DC needs to understand ALL of its customers and get it through their heads that Americans RESPECT any car marque that can win, even a LUXURY BRAND! Never underestimate your buyers, Americans love racing, that is for sure, yes even affluent buyers!

Would BMW have grown so fast in the last 10 years if they did not understand this simple truth? And I think the American market is responsible for much of this. They cater to the performance oriented buyer, and whad'ya know that just happens to fit the profile of a large percentage of successful young Americans. I guess we can thank our lucky stars that AMG is alive and growing. What kind of sales surge would Mercedes experience if only the PR dept. would realize that Americans DO watch racing and DO put their money where the winner is?

Are you listening DC? This is not a hard concept to grasp.

Sorry for the long rant .

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JCE

quoted by Neil Bishop
IF YOUR MERCEDES IS SO GREAT WHY DON'T THEY WIN ANY RACES
OR FOR THAT MATTER EVEN RACE.That quote was from my 12 year old nephew...not me

Ross
Thank you... Thank you...You are very much on point..I agree with you 100% ...You where able to put into words my very thoughts on this subject..

My Best to you
Neil

I understand that. I thought that was the core question you were asking, as you said in your post that you didn't have an answer. In my long winded way all I was trying to say is that they were great, they've been gone, they aren't doing great with their current approach, they are going to have to either do a better job and reap the R&D/PR benefits, or move over for someone else. No flames or offense given or taken.

__________________
John

2003 Firemist Red/grey leather SL 500
2015 Palladium Silver/black mbtex GLK 350
1987 Smoke Silver/burgundy mbtex 300E Sportline (SOLD)

Click to see 87 300E

John
No offense was ever thought about...and you're right... that was the core of my question...its been a long day trying to explain marketing profiles and the high $$$ cost of funding a private racing venture to a 12 year old.....Thanks for your time and input...your insight is greatly appreciated....

My Best Regards
Neil

12 year olds are great: They have a disconcerting way of making us find out if we really know what we are talking about. And they aren't at all bashful about letting us know when they think adults are full of it. After 25 years at the University, I am convinced that selection of a good jr high and high school is more important to life-long learning than selection of a prestigious university - you can loose a lot of talented minds at an early age!

But I sure think it would be easier on all of us if MBs were winning . I wonder if we won't soon see some of the new CLK AMGs appearing at SCCA competition events instead of just cruising Hollywood Blvd. I am years (30) out of date on the rules - will a factory supercharger disqualify them from events?

Regards,

__________________
John

2003 Firemist Red/grey leather SL 500
2015 Palladium Silver/black mbtex GLK 350
1987 Smoke Silver/burgundy mbtex 300E Sportline (SOLD)

Click to see 87 300E

As I'm involved in the TransAm series, crew, I often wonder with all the buyouts and mergers why someone doesn't run a CLK with a Chrysler pushrod motor in it.
Viper has their V10s but have to run a V8 with a max of 311"
The Jaguars run a Ford 311" motor.
The Qvale has to pull the o/h cam motor and go with a pushrod Ford, again 311" max.
The Panoz runs a 311" pushrod Ford
So, why doesn't anyone run a CLK with a destroked 318?

It would fit the bill and would expand the entries. By the way, all the cars run with a sealed 8200 rpm limiter installed.

Just my two cents...
Tobias MB
4 MBs

Keep in mind that MB has bought a percentage of McLaren. Well in Formula 1 this year, they came in second. They have one before, they will win again. I'm hoping that in a couple of years MB will return to Le Mans with a McLaren bagged Benz. It makes sense. They also need to get into the American Le Mans series, and every other major race series they used to be in. I'm guessing its just a quiet time for MB racing right now. I have hope that MB/McLaren will enter Le Mans again, and I also have hope that MB will get into different forms of racing in the future.

I checked out MB's worldwide website and it looks to me like MB is way ahead in points in the DTM, and they hold 6 of the top 10 spots, with Audi as the closest competitor ranking 4th.

__________________
Jason Priest
1999 E430
1995 E420 - retired
1986 420SEL - retired