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-   -   560SL Performance (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-performance-paddock/231697-560sl-performance.html)

actave 08-30-2008 05:39 PM

560SL Performance
 
Hello, I have converted my 560SL to manual 4 speed trans. And i am now looking to get more power out of the 117 560 motor.

I'm looking for any suggestions does anyone have any experience in performance tuning on these engines?

A couple options ive looked at are tri Y headers but they are hard to find.
A 560 sedan engine transplant ive heard they are more powerful but im not exatly sure how much as some list to be as much as 295hp. but is that euro or ECE only? and what is the difference between that engine and my current SL engine? as the stock SL engine seems to have the least power of the 560 range. I know 10:1 compression might be one thing but is that just in the gaskets?

Another thing ive heard about is EFI conversions, I have a full EFI system from a 450SE if that is of any use...? Also ive heard of converting a 500 engine to 560 by using the rods in the 500 engine I have a 500 euro engine does anyone know the specific specs of that? or what i could make out of all of this to get more performance?

Lastly ive been messing with the fuel tuning if i richen it i get noticebly more power revs up better but doesnt idle well. if i lean it it idles fine but noticibly less power and punch in first gear. could i adjust the timing or anything to smoothen the idle when running richer?

any help would be apreciated.

thanks

c280nz 08-30-2008 07:55 PM

you seem to know alot about your engine,but i cant help you with those specifics, all i can help you with is the rich / lean question,
there is a target a/f (air/fuel) ratio combined with advanced timing for your engine to make maximum power, but this really needs to be performed on a dyno with the correct tuning gear, or at the bare least with your own tuning gear, this can be expensive,
unless you know the a/f ratio i wouldnt suggest playing with this to much as it has the possibility to destroy your engine.

i think you must be ajusting your fueling by adjusting the carberator? is this correct? but anyway i think you will be getting inconsistant a/f ratios thru your rev range hence different feel thru the range,
if you can get a electroic injection setup on it this will give you more tuning options with more precision

my 2c'good luck

actave 08-30-2008 08:38 PM

My engine has mechanical CIS-E injectiong i am tuning the fuel air ratio 3 mm allen screw. I'm not worried about screwing it up i can always default back to what i had, and it hasnt been right since i bought the car, I guess my next step would be to adjust the timing with the fuel richened.

Roncallo 08-30-2008 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actave (Post 1951772)
Hello, I have converted my 560SL to manual 4 speed trans. And i am now looking to get more power out of the 117 560 motor.

I'm looking for any suggestions does anyone have any experience in performance tuning on these engines?

A couple options ive looked at are tri Y headers but they are hard to find.
A 560 sedan engine transplant ive heard they are more powerful but im not exatly sure how much as some list to be as much as 295hp. but is that euro or ECE only? and what is the difference between that engine and my current SL engine? as the stock SL engine seems to have the least power of the 560 range. I know 10:1 compression might be one thing but is that just in the gaskets?

Another thing ive heard about is EFI conversions, I have a full EFI system from a 450SE if that is of any use...? Also ive heard of converting a 500 engine to 560 by using the rods in the 500 engine I have a 500 euro engine does anyone know the specific specs of that? or what i could make out of all of this to get more performance?

Lastly ive been messing with the fuel tuning if i richen it i get noticebly more power revs up better but doesnt idle well. if i lean it it idles fine but noticibly less power and punch in first gear. could i adjust the timing or anything to smoothen the idle when running richer?

any help would be apreciated.

thanks

The 560SEL US engine is only more powerful, about 11 HP, due to the twin snorkel intake and less restrictive exhaust. Neither of which will fit easily onto a 107. If I recall the US 560 sedan engine is 238 HP while the SL is 227 HP. The high compression eurospec 560 sedan engine is close to 300HP. I would love to know what parts are required to get you there.

jhodg5ck 08-30-2008 10:34 PM

The 300HP (ECE/Code 822) engines are a Lot more then just high compression (1 pt buys you about a 4% increase in ideal conditions). They also have hotter cams, tri y cast headers, specific EZL, KE and EHA's.

If you Really want to make the engine sing, mechanical lifters and a hot cam Really wake things up:) I'm making power to 6700rpm in one of my 560's.

If you are going to convert to EFI, the old setups are junk..you want to go modern day stand alone fuel and spark...if you like to tinker, Megasquirt is Great.. If you want a Powerful system that's reasonably priced Wolf ECM looks to be the ticket IMHO.

Be careful w/ the CO, for one on a CIS car you are only adjusting the mixture up to 2500rpm...and if you Really want to tune the car you need to so so on a dyno w/ a a/f ratio meter hooked up..w/o that you are mainly guessing.

You can adjust the timing to some degree via the R16 resistor.. stock these cars come w/ 2-3 degrees initial timing which crap..removing said resistor gets you to around 12-15 degrees.

If you want a Hot 560 (or even a 6L) we can set you up w/ a pretty easy 300-320 HP or even more so if a bump in displacement is of interest.

To my knowledge, you'll need the 560 crank as well to make it a 500 a 560.

Jonathan
404 805 1357

actave 08-31-2008 11:08 PM

Thanks jonathan for the help, more displacement is a good idea for the future but at this time id like to try and make sometime out of what i have or can easily get, what engine did you get your mechanical lifters and cams from?

thanks

jhodg5ck 09-01-2008 12:04 PM

Early 4.5/3.5's. You'll only be using the lifters..cams we make our own (3 profile chances before we settled on this) custom valve springs, special fuel pump relay, different lash caps/shims etc..

In short, nothing about the job is 'easy'...!

Jonathan

actave 09-02-2008 12:25 AM

Joathan thanks again for the help, currently Im looking at needing new cams in the near future anyway and the engine had a problem with the oil rail, (someone in the past did some ****ty work on this thing) so im looking at 500 dollars or so for another used motor or fix it with stock cams, I wouldnt mind spending extra for the performance I have a few old 4.5 and 3.5 motors laying around i could use the mechanical lifters from, How much would the rest of the parts i need cost, cams etc?

Great webiste by the way i am glad to see there is someone selling performance kits, parts etc for M117's

how much does a 4 speed manual run? have any laying around?

jhodg5ck 09-02-2008 06:13 PM

I've PM'd you on associated costs outside of the lifters.

No transmissions floating around..honestly, all the Mercedes manual transmissions left quite a bit to be desired..and they were Never known for their power/torque handling ability!

Jonathan


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