Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Mercedes-Benz Performance Paddock

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-06-2008, 06:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada / Lebanon
Posts: 223
300E W124 injectors upgrade

I got a 1991 300E and i am willing to change the injectors to get some more power out of that engine. But i am wondering what are the choices and i am searching the net but i am not getting any good ideas or parts.
Anybody can suggest me anything? any suggestion might help me alot. If you can tell me where to buy it , it would be even better.
i am willing to try to get about 240hp max out of the engine.
what can i do
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-06-2008, 07:03 PM
300EVIL's Avatar
Moderator Incarnate
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Lake Geneva, WI.
Posts: 1,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlippo View Post
I got a 1991 300E and i am willing to change the injectors to get some more power out of that engine. But i am wondering what are the choices and i am searching the net but i am not getting any good ideas or parts.
Anybody can suggest me anything? any suggestion might help me alot. If you can tell me where to buy it , it would be even better.
i am willing to try to get about 240hp max out of the engine.
what can i do
Fuel is not you're issue in the hunt for horsepower, air is. Now, you can junk your entire KE-Jetronic CIS injection system thereby removing the fuel metering vain and get better flow in your intake manifold. With a programmable EFI system and adjustable ignition timing you should get "fairly" close to you're 240HP (from the flywheel) goal.

Is it worth it????? That's up to you. Depending on how much work you can do yourself you could switch to EFI for a cost of say $900 - $5000. $5,000 being if you had a shop do the work and/or you want the best equipment. Don't forget dyno time too!

If you want the best bang for your buck, I'd suggest you look at turbocharging or nitrous. Neither of these options including EFI will be bolt on except for a couple rare (no longer made) kits. You'll have to figure it out yourself or have a performance shop do the work for you.

As for turbocharging, best bang for your buck in my opinion. You could have close to 300HP with you're original CIS injection for around $1,500-$5,000 given that your engine is still in good condition and up to the job.

If you're really hard pressed to performance mod your 300E, get a few books on automotive performance and do some reading. That way you can weigh out your options and decide which way is the best to go for what you want out of it.

Adam
__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-06-2008, 09:46 PM
RBYCC's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DELAWARE
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlippo View Post
I got a 1991 300E and i am willing to change the injectors to get some more power out of that engine. But i am wondering what are the choices and i am searching the net but i am not getting any good ideas or parts.
Anybody can suggest me anything? any suggestion might help me alot. If you can tell me where to buy it , it would be even better.
i am willing to try to get about 240hp max out of the engine.
what can i do
If you have much more then 75K miles on the engine and don't intend on taking it apart to rebuild it then leave it alone.

For the money just find a W124 400E or E420 and you'll have the modified performance you seek in an unmodified V8 vehicle.
__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-06-2008, 10:40 PM
93_300E2.8's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wi
Posts: 63
Fuel is not how to get power. what limits a motor of how much power it will produce is how much air it can get. thus super chargers and turbos.
__________________
Jake

93 300E 2.8L

72 Chevy Nova
74 Chevy Nova Custom W/Corvette Motor 70K
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-06-2008, 11:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada / Lebanon
Posts: 223
i surely thought getting in a 500E or a 400E but until now i didnt find an engine that is good enough and worth it. A mechanics suggest me trying to fit in the 1996 E320 but i wasnt convinced since the E 320 got a lot more of ECUs and electronic stuff than the M103. I am doing my research to see if the E 320 will be an easy fitment on my car or not. Maybe ill have to change the transmission and the axle ratio...and what about all the electronic indicators that the E320 have on its dashboard...how will that fit into my 1991 300E?
I am looking for turbochargers too but its rare to find a nice kit.
Then ill have to mod the exterior, i am willing to get the AMG kit or just the 500E one, i think it can be easily fitted
Note that my car is european spec.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-07-2008, 04:40 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300EVIL View Post
Fuel is not you're issue in the hunt for horsepower, air is. Now, you can junk your entire KE-Jetronic CIS injection system thereby removing the fuel metering vain and get better flow in your intake manifold. With a programmable EFI system and adjustable ignition timing you should get "fairly" close to you're 240HP (from the flywheel) goal. ....
If we're talking about the m103 (3.0-12v) engine than I don't think only going to EFI will get close to 240hp. In my opinion a lot more has to be done i.e. port & polish, cam, increase CR ect. , after all AMG increased the displacement to 3.2 and static CR to 10:1 in order to get 234hp from this engine .
__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-07-2008, 05:21 AM
JayRash's Avatar
DON'T PANIC
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreto View Post
If we're talking about the m103 (3.0-12v) engine than I don't think only going to EFI will get close to 240hp. In my opinion a lot more has to be done i.e. port & polish, cam, increase CR ect. , after all AMG increased the displacement to 3.2 and static CR to 10:1 in order to get 234hp from this engine .

true they did all that but kept the CIS-sys, had they dropped that for EFi am sure alot more could be made from this engine. If u ever have the chance to see the ports on an M103 head u'l see that they r really good, but i will admit cams will help alot. Any way before turbo charging my m103, on a bosch dyno and confirmed by several runs, my 3.0 was making between 200 hp and 205 hp @ 6000 RPM With CIS.
But going EFI is alot of work anyways. new crank sensors, TPS, injectors, coils, harness, IAT, engine temp....
__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-07-2008, 05:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRash View Post
true they did all that but kept the CIS-sys, had they dropped that for EFi am sure alot more could be made from this engine. If u ever have the chance to see the ports on an M103 head u'l see that they r really good, but i will admit cams will help alot. Any way before turbo charging my m103, on a bosch dyno and confirmed by several runs, my 3.0 was making between 200 hp and 205 hp @ 6000 RPM With CIS.
But going EFI is alot of work anyways. new crank sensors, TPS, injectors, coils, harness, IAT, engine temp....
Jay, is that on a stock engine ? I'm currently running an m103 with Megasquirt, haven't dynoed yet since I have a block muffler which strangles the car past 5500 rpm but I'll will do that before turbocharging , however I don't expect to see more then 190 - 200 crank hp .
__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-07-2008, 06:05 AM
JayRash's Avatar
DON'T PANIC
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreto View Post
Jay, is that on a stock engine ? I'm currently running an m103 with Megasquirt, haven't dynoed yet since I have a block muffler which strangles the car past 5500 rpm but I'll will do that before turbocharging , however I don't expect to see more then 190 - 200 crank hp .
Man fine tune ur map, especially ignition timing and u should see good improvement, make sure u have cold intake as well, ditching CIS should free air flow and topend RPM as well, try helping that with a BMW E36 M3 style intake manifold if possible. am sure you will make over 220 hp, after all AMG got 205 hp from this same 3.0 engine on CIS, any way in the end look for a cam and youll make good power on a 3.0l.
__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-07-2008, 07:36 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia
Posts: 584
Jay, your probably right, after all AMG are professionals , on the other side I'm just a guy who likes to play with his cars when there is free time . On the subject of ignition, has anyone pulled the stock timing table from the 300E ECU or does any one have a dyno tuned EFI ignition map for the m103 ?

Here is the ignition advance I'm running (kpa vs rpm , AFR @ WOT now is ~12.6 : 1)



Here is a g-tech HP run showing how power drops off after ~5000rpm due to restriction in the exhaust system .




P.S. Chlippo , sorry for the off-topic .
__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-07-2008, 08:33 AM
JayRash's Avatar
DON'T PANIC
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreto View Post
Jay, your probably right, after all AMG are professionals , on the other side I'm just a guy who likes to play with his cars when there is free time . On the subject of ignition, has anyone pulled the stock timing table from the 300E ECU or does any one have a dyno tuned EFI ignition map for the m103 ?

Here is the ignition advance I'm running (kpa vs rpm , AFR @ WOT now is ~12.6 : 1)



Here is a g-tech HP run showing how power drops off after ~5000rpm due to restriction in the exhaust system .




P.S. Chlippo , sorry for the off-topic .
Am sorry too abt the off topic; man what u need to do is install knock sensor, at least so u can know where the limit is before u start losing power. I also recommend a good tubular header exhaust manifold, as i have seen them work gr8 on M103, and go for free flow exhaust sys. man i really think u should see some good power from this engine even without increasing the compression. And true we are only armatures compared to AMG, but we can all learn and get better.
__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-07-2008, 09:12 AM
teezer's Avatar
ex minutiae manager
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ohio
Posts: 159
anybody considered the holley projection system for the m103 ~~~ pretty simple stand alone fuel injection setup, used one 15+ years ago on a small block chev and worked really well

who makes performance cams for the m103 ???
__________________
1989 300ce smoke silver / brazil, in a constant state of flux ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-07-2008, 09:17 AM
RBYCC's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DELAWARE
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joreto View Post
Jay, is that on a stock engine ? I'm currently running an m103 with Megasquirt, haven't dynoed yet since I have a block muffler which strangles the car past 5500 rpm but I'll will do that before turbocharging , however I don't expect to see more then 190 - 200 crank hp .
My very stock one owner 61K mile M103-12V indicated 135HP/145LBFT against published 177/188 .

This pulls were done on a Mustang load dyno and gave a 30% drive train loss.

Inertia type dynos will read about 15% - 17% higher.

Dyno numbers are just a tuning tool to look at the "before and after" relationship.

After turbo install the pulls were 210/230 at the rear wheels.

Sounds low...but after you work in the 30% drive train loss and add back in the 15% adjustment for the more common inertia dyno you're at...
314/344 at the crank.

Only number that counts is a 0-60 time of 5.3 seconds as proven by a G-Tech 3 axis accelerometer.

1/4 times with very poor traction in 42F ambient at 14.3/99, so better traction should show 13.8 / 102 in a car that weighs around 4000lbs + with driver and fuel.
__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-07-2008, 11:44 AM
JayRash's Avatar
DON'T PANIC
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,278
ED i agree abt the dyno being for before and after especially with so many types and kind, any way here are a couple of links for before and after turbo charging my car:
first with no turbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovEuGp0DsVI
as u can see car was far from slow.

second with turbo installed but (as ed knows already) a ton of tune issues, stil gr8 performance for this 235Kmiles engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74bY_rrTHw
__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
Only number that counts is a 0-60 time of 5.3 seconds as proven by a G-Tech 3 axis accelerometer.

1/4 times with very poor traction in 42F ambient at 14.3/99, so better traction should show 13.8 / 102 in a car that weighs around 4000lbs + with driver and fuel.
Ed, I share your reasoning , for me also the dyno is only a tuning tool and the only real numbers that matter are the track ET and MPH, will see what they show next time when I change the rear muffler
__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page