I see, looks like the m103 is fine with leaner mixtures at that boost level . I agree that too much power without control is a waste. It's better to have 300hp car which can put the power to the ground then 600hp monster which spins in every gear and has no traction, I bet the first one will be faster everywhere except on a dragstrip (if ofcourse the second uses drag radials) and on the freeway at high speeds.

One question comes to mind about the mossleman kit, in you opinion can these turbo support 400+ bhp, which is the goal ?

My guess is either you got very lucky or the WB was not warmed up cause 15:1 AFR at any boost level with decent advance is a recipe for a big bang . A friend cracked a piston's ring lands just touching 14 + :1 @ wot with 10psi of boost (topped out the injectors) even though he would let of right away, hit that mixture 2-3 times.


after those rpm does the TQ stay level , climb or fall off ? Do you have the dyno graph, I'm curios what the tq curve looks like compared to RYBCC ? I think what Roman meant is that his TQ climbs almost to HP peak and doesn't hit suddenly. If you look at his printout he has 676Nm @ 4750 rpm which climbs steadily to 780 @5750. Now what I'd like to see is dyno pulls say from 1500rpm to red line, this way we could see when and how the boost comes on .

__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

abt the mosselman kit, well in my kit i have the KKK K16 turbos which if am not mistaken should cover you to the 400hp mark, its the intercooler that sucks but then again u can have another fitted or even better a water to air unit.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

400+BHP or brake/net/crankshaft horsepower is possible at 7psi/.48 bar boost.

Let me explain my dyno numbers fully.

The difference between stock baseline and turbo install was 30%.
A Mustang Load dyno reads about 17% lower then an inertia dyno which are more common.
My dyno pulls were done in a a 32C ambient.
Probably pick up 3-4% power in a 7C ambient.

I picked up an additional 14HP and 17lbft torque with the intake and boost piping modifications.
These numbers were ascertained with a G-Tech 3 axis accelerometer.

So lets calculate known rwp and convert to bhp.

First add back 30% drive train loss

210HP / .7 = 300bhp
238lbft / .7 =340lbft

Adjust 17% load dyno to common inertia dyno

300bhp / .83 = 362bhp
340lbft / .83 =410lbft

Compare to a newer CLK55 ( 5.4L AMG NA ) with published 362bhp / 376lbft ( and much less drive train loss ! ) in a lighter chassis and you'll see my performance is fairly close.
The CLK55 will probably be faster top end, but I wouldn't be far behind !!!

__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES

As interesting as all of this is I was wondering how to get back to making say 350-400 hp on the race track as the question was. I think that 7-9lbs of boost on race gas or e85 could be sustained without much problem. I have run 9lbs of boost on 10:1 compression m104 for in excess of 60,000 miles. I broke the ring lands when I had a fuel supply problem come up. That motor had started to show signs of cylinder wear in that the the crosshatching was worn off.
I cannot see going to the expense of running twin turbos. A properly sized turbo which is the question will supply plenty of low end power. I do not imagine that there will be a need for lots of power under 3000 rpm on a road track. I make tons of power down low that cannot be used with street tires, but once up into 2nd and above there is no real traction problems.
For fuel ratios, if you run lean for a couple of seconds thats one thing but for long term course racing you will burn down. Dragsters run in the 12.5:1 to 13:1 ratios but for seconds. Coarse racing requires more fuel for cooler temp. I would not go above 12:1 for this application. If you are running e-85 or alcohol then you need to be 10:1 or lower.
As far as longevity is concerned who cares. A 103 engine costs about $300 and takes about a day to replace while drinking a lot of beer.

At low boost levels, mainly just below 0.5 bar (abt 7 - 8 psi) u should be able to run a bit lean with no issues, my engine now has 236k miles on it still on its original internals. Its already covered over 12000 miles with turbo installed.

I know M103 aint that expensive but still its an amazing engine.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed