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  #1  
Old 01-18-2009, 12:27 AM
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300ce turbotechnics dyno revisit






LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING !

Published ratings for 1988 300CE M103-12V are 177HP / 188 Torque.

Baseline dyno done on 3/30/2007 was 136HP / 145 torque.
Pulls were made on a Mustang load dyno which indicates about 18% lower then an inertia dyno.

Drive train loss = 30%.

Turbotechnics kit installed with only mod being the application of a Split Second stand alone controller to fire the two additional injectors.
KE-Jetronic and fuel delivery system remains stock.

5/24/2007 dyno pull 196HP / 221 Torque.

After I got the car back I replaced the supplied intake and boost coil hoses with silicon and aluminum tube.
The supplied Fram panel filter was replaced with a K&N filter.
The R16 resistor removed to pull about 6 degrees advance.

Today I put it back on a Mustang load dyno to see what my mods produced.

1/17/2009 219HP / 254 Torque.

The AFR was great under boost at 11.9 under full boost.
What was noticed was that the boost was only at 6.2 max with an average of 5.4

So about two turns on the wastegate linkage on the Garrett T2's and...

261HP / 302 Torque

This is at the rear wheels.
Max boost now 7.3 with a 6.9 average.
Add back the 30% drive train loss and it's at 340HP / 393 Torque.

Torque is significant...back end goes out with any hard throttle on the 2-3 shift !!!

More boost ???
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1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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Old 01-18-2009, 02:45 AM
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Very nice . Will shock a few rice boxs. Try spending some money and get some high performance tires, and wider if possible. That car shouldnt break loose between 2-3 even with 340hp at the engine. Then it really will be a dream to drive

How much did it cost you for the dyno time?
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2009, 04:09 AM
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Very nice numbers ! If I understood correctly you are not modifying the ignition advance in any way, your just adding fuel under boost with the split second, is this correct ?
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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
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  #4  
Old 01-18-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefang View Post
Very nice . Will shock a few rice boxs. Try spending some money and get some high performance tires, and wider if possible. That car shouldnt break loose between 2-3 even with 340hp at the engine. Then it really will be a dream to drive

How much did it cost you for the dyno time?
I've spent a lot of money, including the $53K purchase price new off the showroom floor in May of 1988 !!

Doubtful I could go any wider on the tires...
Currently running 225/40-18 on 8" wide rims.
With 300lbft at the rear wheels it breaks loose, possibly because of the ambient temp as most performance tires do not grip in low temp..

The dyno pulls were three for $69.95 which is very reasonable...
Had to drive two and a half hours to find a Mustang load dyno.
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2009, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Joreto View Post
Very nice numbers ! If I understood correctly you are not modifying the ignition advance in any way, your just adding fuel under boost with the split second, is this correct ?
Other then pulling the R16 resistor which I believe will give around 6 degree advance on a USA car, all else is stock.

No mods made to the KE-Jetronic III, fuel pumps, fuel distributor, EZL, ignition,etc...

Just trying to prove that you don't have to go to EFI to make power.

The Split Second and the two injectors gives a 11.8 AFR under full boost...
I would expect with traction ( drag radials ) to run low 13's around 105+...with 0-60 around five...
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2009, 09:36 AM
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Ed, if you don't mind rolling your fenders you can fit 255 tyres at the rear for extra traction. Be warned, it's a handful when it rains heavily!
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  #7  
Old 01-19-2009, 12:32 AM
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did you get any detonation/pre-ignition?
good figures, do you have the graph to post?
but why did you go for the load dyno,
why not a hub dyno

and i respect that after all of the hp debate on the net with the turbo kits on the m103-104 you have gone and got some figures for proof
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2009, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
Other then pulling the R16 resistor which I believe will give around 6 degree advance on a USA car, all else is stock.

No mods made to the KE-Jetronic III, fuel pumps, fuel distributor, EZL, ignition,etc...

Just trying to prove that you don't have to go to EFI to make power.

The Split Second and the two injectors gives a 11.8 AFR under full boost...
I would expect with traction ( drag radials ) to run low 13's around 105+...with 0-60 around five...
Interesting, this would mean that in stock NA form the timing is very conservative even when advanced to max i.e. resistor removed. I don't see any problems for making power with the CIS (after all people made power even with carbs :-) ) as long as it's in good working order (of course with a piggyback like the SS). In my book it's the simplest way, also this way you retain the factory tuning when of boost and it's also easier to tune since you just map the on boost part .
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1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c280nz View Post
did you get any detonation/pre-ignition?
good figures, do you have the graph to post?
but why did you go for the load dyno,
why not a hub dyno

and i respect that after all of the hp debate on the net with the turbo kits on the m103-104 you have gone and got some figures for proof
No detonation noticeable, engine temp running about 85-90
I'm having a hard time getting the scan of the graph to be readable due to colors.
Summary sheet is below.

I used the load dyno because it was what the install was originally tuned on.
Load dyno reads lower then inertia but there are less variables and inputs from the operator compared to a inertia unit that can skew the numbers.

Ambient temp in the garage was cold enough that fans were not required for cooling.



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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES

Last edited by RBYCC; 01-19-2009 at 08:46 AM.
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  #10  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ortolan View Post
Ed, if you don't mind rolling your fenders you can fit 255 tyres at the rear for extra traction. Be warned, it's a handful when it rains heavily!
BJ

I'm running Falken FK-452's which are not a very good cold weather tire.
It has been unusually cold over the weekend with Saturday around 10F.

The Falken's seem to begin grip with temps above 50F

They are good in the rain providing you have a light foot !!!!
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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  #11  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:42 PM
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What are the sizes of those turbos? Whats the A/R on the turbine housing?

Nice numbers btw. That m103 screams.
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Turbo E320 View Post
What are the sizes of those turbos? Whats the A/R on the turbine housing?

Nice numbers btw. That m103 screams.
Thanks....I'm considering an increase to 8psi...no need to go any higher.

The Garrett T2's are circa 1990 and were widely used at the time.
They have their limits but show no lag when spooling up.

The T2ís compressor inlet is 45mm diameter and the discharge nozzle is flared to 52mm at the slip-on hose connection. The compressor housing is also marked with a 0.48 A/R. Exhaust gas passes through a 50 x 39mm turbine passage and the mounting flange is 63 x 93mm. The turbine and dump pipe both connect with 4 bolt flanges.
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2009, 02:04 PM
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just be careful rbycc with sneeking the boost up, you will be geting closer and closer to detonation, mayb not at the moment if the weather is cool, but if it heats up where you live say thru summer, u have the potential to melt something, even with enough fuel,
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2009, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by c280nz View Post
just be careful rbycc with sneeking the boost up, you will be geting closer and closer to detonation, mayb not at the moment if the weather is cool, but if it heats up where you live say thru summer, u have the potential to melt something, even with enough fuel,
Agree fully...that's why I'm going to do additional pulls in the late spring early summer.

I can always reinstall the R16 resistor which will retard about 6 degrees.

Not worried at the moment about the AFR as it's under 12 under full boost / rpm.

Remember the M103 is stock 9.2:1 CR

Looking for a 3.27 LSD to replace the stock 3.07 rear.

Thanks

Ed A.
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:21 AM
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So are you running the standard fuel injection with nothing done to it?
How diferent is this system compared to that of a 500SEC W126 2nd Gen, i want to force it and yeah i kinda didn't want to anymore when i figured i had to change out the k-jet
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