fuel pump relay ;)

The "Nuclear Option" turned out to be a "flintlock option" today. The V8 FPR didn't raise my 1-2 shift point one bit but it did raise my 2-3 shift point to past 6,500 where a rev limiter kicked in fairly aggressively. This is the exact opposite of what I was aiming for. I had no control over when the 2-3 shift would occur other than letting off of the gas pedal which is something you don't want to have to do when you are drag racing with an automatic trans. I also had no control over when the 1-2 shift occurs. I tried shifting it manually, and I tried letting it shift by itself in drive, the result was the same 6,000 RPM 1-2 shift point. With my bad M103 FPR that does the 1-2 shift at only 5,000 RPM in drive I can at least raise that to about 5,900-6,000 by shifting it manually by starting with the shifter in it's lowest position but nothing I did today with this V-8 FPR had any effect. I almost think that this V8 FPR may be bad too because of the bad 2-3 shifts but it was the only one there was as all of the other V8 FPRs that I found only have 7 pins whereas this one has 9 pins which matches the 9-10 pin FPRs that I find on 88-89 M103s.

I'm thinking that we may be wrong about these FPRs reading all ignition pulses and that they instead only read the ignition pules of the number one cylinder. Doing it this way would have the effect of generating the same number of pulses for any given RPM regardless of the number of cylinders which would explain why this V8 FPR was of no help today and why it still has a 6,500 RPM fuel cutout which should have been over 7,000 if it had been going by the total amount of ignition pulses.

Guys, what do you think about all of this?

Jay could you please tell me more about your custom homemade deal that you ran in place of your FPR on Dima? (Your 92 300E) I know that is an entirely different FPR because it also is combined with the klima relay too whereas the pre-90 W124s had separate relays for the klima and the fuel pump/kickdown. This is also why I can't try a FPR from a M104 because M104s didn't exist before 1990 so there is no such thing as a compatible pre-90 M104 FPR and klima relay that I can use in my pre-90 M103.

Also need to hear from you too Jonathan what your thoughts are! Don't forget that this V8 FPR was your idea! ;):P Now please help me make it work! :P:D I know you've been lurking about here lately! I saw your posts on the 2.24 to 2.82 thread! :P:P

Again, I simply MUST have a 6,400-6,500 RPM 1-2 shift so that I'll be right at my torque peak when I hit 2nd instead of below my torque peak. There is quite a ratio spread between 1st and 2nd on these 89 and later wide ratio trannys, much wider than the ratio spread on the pre-89 trannys, which is why I need to rev the pee out of it. I am very convinced that the reason I haven't been able to duplicate the high-15s that I got before I did the T-bar mod is because we are doing the 1-2 shift at 6,000 to 6,200 now instead of at 6,400 to 6,500 like we were before the t-bar mod. This is the only remaining condition that I haven't been able to duplicate from that day when I ran those three 15s so I'm now even more convinced that this is the missing ingredient that we need. And no, I don't want to undo the t-bar mod and go back to those awful, lazy shifts that we had before. This car went from being the laziest, slowest shifting of my 4 W124s to the quickest, best shifting one. And I absolutely LOVE these second gear chirps! I don't want to give them up and I shouldn't have to. I am in fact going to turn the t-bar in some more on Benzer3 before his return to the track! (So far I have turned Benzer3's t-bar in only one full turn vs. the approx 10 turns I did on Benzer1.) This is yet another mod that Jonathan got me hooked on!

So what to do at this point about raising Benzer1's 1-2 shift point a few hundred more RPM? The best most generous FPR that I have tested since doing the t-bar mod has only delivered about 6,200 RPM which is still a little too far short of the goal.

While on the topic of generous FPRs, I had said earlier that the aftermarket FPRs that are made in Hungary seem to be the most generous with the revs but now I have tested a few more that were not so I have to retract that statement. One has to literally test each and every one to be sure of exactly what it does.

Also, has anybody ever used a 7 pin FPR in place of these 9-10 pin FPRs? I didn't want to pay for some unless I knew for sure that I'd actually be able to use them. Money's too tight to mention!
Regards, Eric

What is the T-bar mod? as for my home made relay. well i got a regular 5 leg Bosch relay and i had an old fpr from which i took the pins to weld wires to so i can plug them into the fpr seat in the car. i will post which pins i used and connected together later when the car is home. but nothing u do to the car will raise ur 1-2 shift point. maybe if u disconnect the kickdown switch and make a manual over ride switch that u manually turn on and off, maybe then u will get a higher 1-2 shift rpm.

also note that the valve body it self holds more revs when in position 2 vs position D so always start in that position when racing. let it shift into 2nd before u take the leaver to 3.

The t-bar is under the little cap in the center of the modulator. You pop the cap and turn the t-bar clockwise to firm up the shifts. Back on 500Ecstasy Jonathan told me to do the mod to Benzer3. Jono said turn it all the way in but then everybody else chimed in and told me not to exceed more than one turn which scared me and prevented me from seeing the full benefit from the mod. About 3 years later, when it came time to try the mod on Benzer1, I saw zero improvement with just one turn so I thought I'd try it Jono's way this time and crank it in. I figured I had nothing to lose on this car because it was shifting so sluggishly I honestly believed that the tranny was on it's last legs. Well you know the rest. It is shifting so quick and hard now that the shifts are being completed a lot earlier too! Too early in fact!

When you say disconnect the kickdown switch and make a manual over ride switch that I manually turn on and off, do you mean the one under the gas pedal? How could I make that override the nanny that is forcing shifts at 6,000 RPM?

Yes that switch. When u wire ur own switch u will decide when the kickdown solenoid is turned on or off. In on position the car should hold gear to max revs in first after that no need to use the switch just shift manually.

You mean the transmission modulator right?

How about that you tightned it too much so its now shifting earlier? You said you already had it at 10 turns, i didnt read your whole prob, but maybe if you get it loosen a bit (maybe 5 turns) the car will go back into shifting at 6400 rpm.

The modulator doesn't change shift point it affects shift pressure and hence harshness.

But the WOT shifts are being completed so quickly now that they are also being completed earlier now too. Too early in fact! That is why we are producing slower E/Ts now even though the tranny is shifting quicker. I know it sounds stranger than fiction but it's true. As I already stated earlier, I probably could back the t-bar back off a bit but I don't want to give up these awesome shifts. I want to keep the shifts as they are and raise the shift points back up to where they were.

Jay, weren't you able to raise your WOT shift points with your custom FPR? I know that the FPR does have an effect on WOT shift points. As I've already stated, I've seen minor differences in WOT shift points with different FPRs.

Edit: I just now remembered the post about how older FPRs have a potentiometer that can be adjusted! I'm gonna look into this!
Regards, Eric

Eric i usually increase WOT shift point by tighting the tranny cable that controls kickdown. but it has a counter effect on 1st gear. I suggest that for a trial run disconnect the cable from the throttle linkage under the airfilter. u will have zero kickdown, but just try it and run it as a manual. Ie control it thru the leaver. or just loosen the cable a few turns and see if first shifts at a higher rpm, note u still need to run the gearbox as a manual to get max rev shift point. trust me its not bad to shift manually. i never ever race with the leaver in D.

I know, I do shift Benzer1 manually most of the time. I was just making the observation that it wasn't having any effect this time when I was trying the V8 FPR.

I also would like to have it set up in such a way that it will shift at the perfect RPM point on it's own without me having to help it. Sometimes I need to be able to pay attention to the road instead of the tachometer. There is a lot of traffic around here!

Thanks for the other advice and tips. If I can't get what I want by manipulating the potentiometer in the FPR, your ideas will be the next step. I'd prefer to be able to quickly change my WOT shift points with a simple change of the FPR. Have one set up with more economy orientated shift points and the other set up with crazy track orientated shift points. Don't know if it's gonna work but I want to try.
Regards, Eric

Only if the trans isn't shifing at the otimal RPM on it's own. My goal is to get the trans to shift at the optimal RPM on it's own.

You have to use the tachometer. And therein lies the problem. Sometimes you need to keep your eyes on the road instead of the tach. That's why I want the automatic to do it's job. I mean, why have an automatic if I still have to shift it for myself?

(Edit: This post is a response to a post that has been inexplicably removed.)
Regards, Eric

Continuing this conversation over here in this thread because this stuff doesn't apply to O.S.'s HFM car, and to continue to talk about it there would amount to hijacking his thread.

I took FIVE FPRs apart today and NONE of them had any potentiometers in them. I took great care to focus on older ones (87-88) but that didn't help. So I need more help and input here.

Strife, just what exactly did you mean by "older"? What year range? Maybe this is more related to who the OEM supplier was rather than the year range?

One thing worth noting is that these things have two chips in them, an 8 pin and an 18 pin so whoever it was that said these things aren't very intelligent just might be incorrect.
Regards, Eric

Whats the issue??

He must have COMPLETELY misunderstood me. I am the one who was hijacking his thread and I felt bad about it so I brought the conversation back over here to this thread because Benzer1 is a CIS-E car and this is the CIS-E thread. His thread is about how to make his HFM car quicker and with the exception of the resistor mods, these FPR, EZL, and CIS-E ECU experiments that I am doing have no bearing on his efforts whatsoever. As you know, in many ways, the HFM cars are completely different animals.
Regards, Eric

everything is cool.so sorry to interrupt.