Megasquirt on 1995 C36 AMG. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JayRash · #1 07-19-2009, 05:12 AM

Well we all know that the M104 3.6 has a lot more in it than just 280HP especially if the intake manifold is changed to one similar to the M3 E46, along with a similar exhaust manifold.

Trick is in the tuning for those upgrades, unfortunately that can’t be done on the stock ECU, so Megasquirt steps in.

Now do you guys know if I can use the sensors stock on my M104, crank sensor, cam shaft sensor, CTS, IAT, and just add a map sensor? Will the mega ECU run the stock coils, and injectors?

thanx

Mike D · #2 07-19-2009, 09:46 AM

The MS already has an on-board MAP sensor. Connect it up and it's ready to go. The MS only does "batch" injector firing so if you're running "sequential" now you might run into problems.

The CTS and IAS can be programmed into the MS's code by using the "Easy-therm" program. The O2 is a "given".

You'd have to check the MS tech boards to verify the cam and crank sensor questions but I'd guess "yes". The coils are just triggered so it should be no problem.

jfilipcic · #3 07-19-2009, 11:12 AM

JayRash, now you just giving me more bad ideas (than the ones I already have). Please keep the thread updated. I've been trying to think of an engine idea for a new project. A variation of this is coming to mind.

JayRash · #4 07-19-2009, 12:49 PM

thnx,

well its just still a baby idea, but ever since i got this AMG and i have been looking for ways to get the HP with

Any way the plan is to see how much i would gain, but if all things work i might consider boosting the engine.

i need to start checking the MS tech board, wanna see if the knock sensors can be programed to give me a fail safe by pulling the timing.

again the project is still far from starting, and i will check with roman since he has good know how with this.

Jfilipcic, whats your ideas, and what car is it?

Joreto · #5 07-19-2009, 03:48 PM

Hi Jay, I have no experience with the m104 engine but you should be able to use MS with most of your stock sensors (not sure about the crank and camsensor). You should be able to drive the stock coils in wasted spark mode with no problem (we've done it on a bmw E36 328i, turbocharged). As Mike D says the CTS and IAT can be programed to run correctly with MS. For knock control you can use knocksense (http://www.viatrack.ca/) , a lot of people use it with success . One thing I don't think you'll be able to control is the variable valve timing (the m104 has VVT right ? ) if it's step less (like on the new BMW m3).

JayRash · #6 07-19-2009, 04:23 PM

thanx for the input my hopes are up on this project. The vvt is an on off system it advances full at abt 1900 revs and retards at abt 3700 or slightly higher. A simple rpm window switch can run it. And same for the resonance flap.

Mike D · #7 07-20-2009, 12:40 AM

Well, THIS is an international thread! We go from Lebanon, Bulgaria, North-North America to South-North America. C'mon, one of you mates down there in OZ chip in and we'll have about all the large continents covered.

c280nz · #8 07-20-2009, 04:12 AM

new zealand :-) does that count.
the crank angle sensor on my m104 is a hall effect sensor with 3 segments and a magnet, the easiest way to go for timing will be to add a timing/trigger wheel on the front of the crank pully and a pickup for timing, i beleive this is what roman and most tuners do, it gives you the resolution needed for precise ignition timing needed for dyno tuning,
and it wont be the hardest or most expensive part to add in iat and water temp sensors to the engine, i wouldnt worry about the resonance flap,

if your going stand alone go boost!

JayRash · #9 07-20-2009, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c280nz

new zealand :-) does that count.
the crank angle sensor on my m104 is a hall effect sensor with 3 segments and a magnet, the easiest way to go for timing will be to add a timing/trigger wheel on the front of the crank pully and a pickup for timing, i beleive this is what roman and most tuners do, it gives you the resolution needed for precise ignition timing needed for dyno tuning,
and it wont be the hardest or most expensive part to add in iat and water temp sensors to the engine, i wouldnt worry about the resonance flap,

if your going stand alone go boost!

Thanks, so the cam phasing will work i guess, the trigger wheel i have to make or get, was thinking of getting the MS from roman’s site, that way i can ask him for a start up map, and see with him if the stock knock sensors will work for i assume they are bosch ones.

As for the boost part, well once the car is running fine and well on the MS i guess boosting it will be a walk in the park, especially that it won be too high a boost.

Joreto · #10 07-20-2009, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

As for the boost part, well once the car is running fine and well on the MS i guess boosting it will be a walk in the park, especially that it won be too high a boost.

Yes that is the way to do it, first get the car running well on MS and then go boosted

. If the m104 uses a Hall sensor then your good to go, I'd look into using the stock trigger if it's possible (if the original setup is we three pickups). From c280nz description it sounds like it could be use i.e. the three segments (pickups) are used to calculate the firing of the 6 cyl in wasted spark mode (I might be wrong). Didn't Roman post a setup where he used a hall sensor and three bolts on for pickup on the stock crank pulley (this thread Best you can do for your car! , post #13) ?

jfilipcic · #11 07-20-2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

Jfilipcic, whats your ideas, and what car is it?

JayRash,
I'm doing another w124 sedan.
I currently have 2 spare m104 engines (one is for rebuild for my w124 cabrio - twin turbo). I was thinking of buying a c36 engine for this new project, but if I can make one of the current engines work, it saves me from spending more money.

JayRash · #12 07-20-2009, 08:36 AM

for boosted setups, stay away from th AMG unit, its a big PIA, its has all the good internals but its bored to the max, so it wont be rebuildable. so i have heard, thou since i have the engine already, and if MS works with me, ill be boosting it anyhow

300EVO · #13 07-20-2009, 05:43 PM

I've thought about doing this myself.

One thing no one has mentioned is the ETA (electronic throttle actuator). The throttle body is controlled by a separate idle speed/cruise control ECU outside the main engine ECU. Even though a throttle cable goes to the area, it turns a sensor for the ECU, not the actual throttle body (drive by wire).

There is a guy back in Florida who did a manual conversion on his throttle body & intended to run a Ford TPS & standalone but never finished it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B82QdnMlm1Y

JayRash · #14 07-21-2009, 01:30 AM

Yes 300 EVO,
It is an issue i have given some thought to, and although this car has one direct and amazing throttle control for an electronic system, if this ETA goes haywire its a 1400usd+ replacement part.

So maybe getting rid of it is a good thing, question is; the TB, does it have a TPS on it?

ke6dcj · #15 07-21-2009, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

thanx for the input my hopes are up on this project. The vvt is an on off system it advances full at abt 1900 revs and retards at abt 3700 or slightly higher. A simple rpm window switch can run it. And same for the resonance flap.

I believe at 5200 RPM's it advances again. But I may be wrong . . .

I've been debating MS for my C36-powered wagon . . .

:-) neil