500E with NOS - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ke6dcj · #1 09-27-2003, 03:37 AM

Just got back from my trip to California, and found out Bergwerks (http://www.bergwerks) is 98% complete in their NOS integration into a 500E.
Moreover, it is a system that can be generalized for all M119 motors.

The NOS integration is a TRUE system with at least 3-safety features to protect the M119 V8 engine.

The system can be "armed" on the go, and it's power delivery is very smooth and controlled,with minimal stress to the power-train.

The speedo-needle climbs incredibly fast, but the driver will be struggling to look down while being shoved firmly into the seat.

How do I know-- I took a ride with Carl of Bergwerks on the prototype. INCREDIBLE! I'm in line for one once it has their stamp of approval.

Stay tuned for more . . .

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

mark cummins · #2 09-27-2003, 02:25 PM

Neil, How big of a Shot are they using......The car MUST be a Rocket...add a Diff and BAMM Launch Time!
Any HP Numbers? or too soon ?

placo1 · #3 09-27-2003, 04:04 PM

Your're one of the rare few that have had a taste of the Bergwerks NOS system! Everyone is saying that it is incredible and just what the car needs. Can't wait to see the setup once Carl unveils it.

ke6dcj · #4 09-27-2003, 08:27 PM

Carl is closely guarding the dyno figures until he gets everything dialed-in.

We've got to leave him something to announce

Yes, a higher diff would help, but at the cost of TOP end speed. But I guess were not on the Autobahn . . .

:-) neil

run.exe · #5 09-28-2003, 04:04 AM

SCREW a Brabus 6.5L upgrade... @ $41K+...

Where do I sign?

#6 09-30-2003, 11:24 AM

Is Carl still working on the SC project? I see it is still on his site under "Projects." The 928 guys finally have good reliable supercharger installs, one guy with 500 HP to the wheels. Thats what I want.

BTW, did some extended (about 4 hours worth) high RPM 4th gear driving with 2 928GTSs on Sunday and the E was unbelievable. The car just keeps pulling harder the farther you get around the tach. Our cars are definitely underrated as the GTS is rated at 345 peak HP 369 peak Torque and I could pull on them all day even with my extra weight (although they don't stop 'til about 170-175). I talked to a guy down here in Texas who dynoed his '94 at 284HP at the wheels. I had a 7 series try to keep up and it was a joke. This guy was probably thinking "...old mercedes E sedan...I'm gonna smoke by him..." This guy finally caught up in the next small town at a red light. It was AWWWWWWWESOME!! Never had so much fun in my life!

Randy
'94 E500

#7 09-30-2003, 02:10 PM

Only crap, this car must be faaaaaaaaast

#8 09-30-2003, 03:29 PM

Traded emails with Carl and he said SC project is dead but I guess everyone already knew that.

I knew I picked the wrong profession. I need to go to metal shop and learn how to fabricate my own parts!

Randy
'94 E500

super SEC · #9 09-30-2003, 07:15 PM

Something must be wrong with those GTS's if you could "pull on them." They usually dyno at 300 RWHP and weigh a good bit less than an e500. Heck, a stock 928 GT will dyno over 300 RWHP and that is out of the 5.0L and a 928 S4 with headers will dyno between 300 and 330 RWHP. The GTS has almost a half liter displacement more than an S4. http://www.devek.net/index.php?page=nfo_dynoroom Good story though.

Glen · #10 10-01-2003, 12:20 AM

super SEC,
First of all, thanks for posting the url for DEVEK. Great site!

re: the dyno figures. With all due respect, I think you need to read between the lines a bit. The page you pointed to may be an early page that DEVEK published when they were using the water-brake dyno which they state proved to indicate optimistic results, see Verification is Key

They have since switched to a Dynojet chassis dyno which they say has proven to be more consistent. Using the Dynojet, a stock '88 S4 5-speed put out: max hp = 266.6 max torque = 281.7
which is very consistent with my own results with my '94 E500 on the same model dyno. Which makes sense since the engines are of similar displacement and configuration.

However, one thing to note about 928 engine ratings. Peak torque is attained at about 3000 RPM vs. 3900 in the E500. This would be one reason Randy's E pulled on the GTS's. Torque higher up is always better. Also, as sleek as the 928 looks, it's really not as aerodynamic as the E. Roughly .34 to .36 compared to about .32 for the E.

Anyway, I don't mean to pick nits...I know you have your opinions on the 928 and don't get me wrong, I love the 928, especially the GTS versions. But, I don't think Randy's results are anything but expected.

run.exe · #11 10-01-2003, 03:21 AM

You are a gentleman AND a scholar!

super SEC · #12 10-01-2003, 09:05 AM

Glen,

Facts are useless when they are not facts. Those are DynoJet runs. In fact, it says on the verification page that the only charts they have posted are from a DynoJet. I quote, "All of the dyno charts represented here are scanned original printouts from the dynojet computer."

#13 10-01-2003, 10:10 AM

Super SEC,

The reason I was with these guys is that I owned a GTS up until May of this year and I still hang out with these guys. I have owned and driven 928's since February 1987; I know these cars intimately (like you) and I am talking from experience. I was at a gathering of 30 928s and 2 other owners there also have '94 E500s so the 3 of us spent a good hour talking about them.

One problem the GTS has is mild cams and it does not breathe well at high RPM. Most GTSs dyno between 285 and close to 300 peak HP. You know that a GTS will not pull hard to redline like a GT will.

The car leading was a 5 speed, the guy in the middle was an auto and then me. I think I know when I am moving faster and catching-up (pulling on) to a car that is around me. This isn't a "story." The E keeps pulling harder and harder the closer it gets to redline, it is truly amazing. Maybe it has more area under the curve - I haven't seen a dyno chart for a 500. I realize the E500 is not the greatest car on Earth and doesn't have the most powerful engine ever seen and isn't going to go out and "blow away" everything out there.

Halfway home the lead car was pulled over and the other guy and I drove a few miles and pulled over to wait in a small town. He immediately hopped out and checked out my car. He was as impressed with my car as I was! When the other car finally showed up, I took a great picture of a man who saw a cop while going 145 (per his word) in a 70 and managed to get a warning for 81 (lets just say it was the biggest smile you'd ever seen)!!!

An E500 will run all day at high speeds with a 928GTS. The GTS will not out perform the E500. There isn't any section of road where a GTS has an advantage. Been there saw it!

Randy
'94 E500

Glen · #14 10-01-2003, 10:10 AM

Fair enough, however, where I disagree with you is when you characterize all 928's having a certain HP level. The '90 GT they tested at ~308 RWHP may been an exceptionally strong example. We don't know.

In the case of the '88 S4, I said the results were consistent with my expectations based on my own 'similar' engine.

We'd have to look at the actual torque curves, but I would 'guess' that the E500 is making more torque in the RPM ranges we're talking about. Coupled with better aerodynamics, it makes sense that the E500 would pull away.

Enough bench racing...Randy's real world experience makes my point.

And I agree, it was a great story.

gsxr · #15 10-01-2003, 10:40 AM

Uh, back to the NOS kit. Any idea what 1/4 mile times would be with NOS (and perhaps ASR defeat also)? I wonder if high 12's are possible. Would be fun to spank owners of new STi's and EVO's (well, as long as their cars are stock...)