|
|
|
|
|
#136
08-24-2010, 12:07 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
I'm just a neophyte, never been serious but like the challenge of taking a stock "antiquated" platform and getting almost 400ftlb torque at the flywheel at 7lbs boost... To me doing "period" mods tends to maintain value on certain cars... Bastardize and you may go faster but you end up with a money pit and a car that only a "serious tuner" with less then deep pockets will consider... I have more then one mid five figure offer from other "non serious tuners", more purists to purchase my build when complete... Oddly enough have no reason to sell... My TT runs, is reliable and is fast...no need to constantly fiddle and no chance of trashing a motor like most of the EFI turbo posts I see on the thread... If I want to go very fast round and round and outperform even the mega HP older platforms with EFI, I just drive my Black Series... Different cars for different purposes...that's what us less then serious tuners do... But again, I'm an amateur compared to you serious guys... I'll remain in the world of getting the most out of a platform as when the platform was new... Perhaps it takes a bit more skill doing this, but what do I know?
__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg 1971 280SL ROADSTER 1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY 1994 E320 CABRIOLET 1999 C43 AMG 2005 G55K AMG 2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES 
|
|
#137
08-24-2010, 02:00 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Calm down. EFI existed in the 80s, actually. Mmm k? Ask Porsche why they went to EFI for the performance models of the 944. Or why Toyota used it on the Supra. Or anybody in LeMans, WRC, F1 racing, you get the picture. They know even more about it than I do!! Imagine that  Deep pockets  These are $3000 cars?!?! That's why people are finally tuning them. All your fiddling with CIS probably costs more and take longer than megasquirt 3 extra with trimmings.It's not about HP. It's about making the car run as well as possible. Sorry, I personally like increased efficiency, performance, accuracy, across the entire engine spectrum for under $600. I'm such a dork. Dammit. And you know what, you can take your condescending tone somewhere else. You buy a $65'000 car already set up and think you can come here and tell other people anything? Shoot, all I have to do is get a lease and I'm as fast as you. What have you contributed? Slapped on a turbo "kit" that a highschooler could install, and now you're the authority on tuning Mercedes'?? Say what? Also, don't be talking "purist" or "original" "maintaining value" when you be slapping porsche fenders on. Hypocrite. Oh, but they're 88 porsche fenders, right?
Last edited by MagnumPI; 08-24-2010 at 02:22 PM.
|
|
#138
08-24-2010, 06:16 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
touche'......There is always a better, more advanced, reliable, efficient way of doing something!........this thread is ACTUALLY about DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT....OUT OF THE BOX......I'm getting a little fed up with the digging @ members who are going after huge HP. Each to their own. By getting huge power out of these engines. These members are helping me determine the limitations & modification options 'practical' for my car.
I have nothing but immense respect for anyone who can get massive power out of a stock engine & keep it running. Btw RBYCC, where is your grounding for insinuating other members are building unreliable cars as opposed to your conservative build? Romans? Jereto's.......are you even reading these members threads/comments with an open mind? Roman is yet to 'wreck' his builds & has 4 vehicles on the road as I write......& I recall you turned your nose up not far back @ another member who was trying to relay the very important & all too many times overlooked (due to ignorance/cost perhaps?) 'performance enhancement capabilities' of using 'custom exhaust manifolds' when wanting low end efficiency from a turbo. Again recently you stated that a bigger turbo results in more heat! I mean really? I didn't chime in & call you out on these. I did comment on the first but only to make sure others weren't put off by your rediculous comment! Also there's the matter of what people can afford. It's alright for you to brag about your late model V8 that cost you an arm & leg & we may never be in the position to own. Sciting how you think you can out gun all other members cars if you wanna go fast. So what! Any rich guy can buy one the same as yours & park it next door to you. That'd be fun I admire what you have done with the stock injection set up on your car. Heck luv it! It's an inspiration man. But it's not necessarily the best way & definately not the only way. Not to mention it has limitations & so doesn't show what hp CAN be had from these engines, just what hp can be had with stock set up. Your comments, whilst they are welcome on this thread, being condescending toward others' comments is not. Pls don't comment on this thread if your are only looking to be condescending toward other members. It is in the rules for addressing another members project thread in any forum. Come on guys. There is a big difference between healthy debate & constructive critisism as opposed to destructive argumentativeness! I just started a thread in the feedback section about how great this forum was & the great knowledge & advice that members show & the friendliness members show toward one another compared to other stiff-necked, arrogant, non-welcoming forums I am on. I'd luv to name these a-hole fourms but restrain the urge merely out of respect as members on here may also be members over on these forums. Here's the link below: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/site-feedback/283443-best-forum-around.html#post2531144 Can we keep to the main theme of my project thread pls? You guys are terrific & I don't want squabbling going on. Others trying to learn/convey knowledge will be put off instead of enjoying the reading. P.S. Personally I'm not after resale value or even give a crap what others think of or offer me for my car. I'm about "fixing" the farkup someone else made to the car. I bought in on LPG so it stays on LPG. Started with 1 turbo so it ends with 1 turbo. I was after 400whp originally ONLY due to ignorant Merc members down under where I am from that said it takes $80+k to get this hp from a 300E & it can't happen! So. I was out to prove these guys wrong. BECAUSE of idealisation & conservativeness, such that, you seem to honour & hold in high regard RBYCC, coupled with NOT knowing what Roman & Kynsi CAN DO (& this is my point.....CAN DO) to these engines/cars, these Aussie members are IGNORANT! This ignorance cost 1 particular member dearly. I have driven, & still drive, EFI turbocharged vehicles & are fully aware of the advances in EFI technology & would NEVER have gone with tis mixer set up except that with this particular application I feel I have to see it through. Heck. It just may work.....  Now I have decided to let this challenge go & build the car I want to build. After all. It is my project. Noone elses'. P.P.S.S. Also. If I had of known back when I was 18 that all I had to do was put a bigger turbo on my street car I owned to get better top end due to 'mismatched' turbo & engine build, I could've really had something special. Lack of knowledge & unwillingness to accept change has no place in a performance forum imho....... Had to be said. Here's to constructive, not destructive debate 
__________________
um.....why have men got nipples  Last edited by BAD300; 08-24-2010 at 06:53 PM.
|
|
#139
08-24-2010, 09:03 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
I should paste it on every racing forum in russia and sweden that every serios tuner can finaly understand that EFI is far away from good for Turbo tuning!!! 
__________________
MB 300E 24v Turbo MS3X TURBOCHARGE YOUR MERCEDES www.turbobandit.com My band! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Turbobandit/135610656626424?fref=ts
|
|
#140
08-25-2010, 12:35 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I've decided to take Romans advice concerning the dynamics of these engines & how they work up top & not so much down low so, in order to take advantage of their inherent performance characteristics, I've decided to swap turbine housings. I will run with the .84. & not the .63. I may as well swap it now while it's sitting on bench than later after it's fitted to the car.
I don't want the back pressure & accompanying heat on the turbine wheel & inlet parts that the smaller housing would create. Besides. The better economy & higher hp I think kinda speaks for itself  Just so happens workshop has an .84 housing from a commodore they worked on so it isn't a big deal.
__________________
um.....why have men got nipples
|
|
#141
08-25-2010, 03:05 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Evrypody write differently. Someone have strong opinions whitaot any point.
(I am maby lucky because I dont understant allmost anything bad between lines because of my bad english.) About megasguirt against something else management system. I am maby weard, but sometimes i sit down and take coffee cup and printed datalog diagrams, and i usually find something interesting from those lines. Good thead about tunin 300 to repsonable level by single turbo. Ill be reading about progress...
|
|
#142
08-25-2010, 03:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
The 88 Porsche fenders are the identical contour to the C124 WB kit... Similar to the contour of the 944S to the C126 WB sheetmetal. So that ends this point of your misinformation and lack of knowledge of pre merger AMG builds. Yes there are more then $3K 124 beaters in this world...mid five figures is typical for something collectable... But not sure if you know what a collector or specialty car is...doubtful you've ever been close to owning any vehicle of value. I never claimed to be an expert..remember you are the "serious tuner"... Slapping on a kit..I guess beneath you...you prefer to reinvent the wheel and look past kits that were installed and warranteed on new delivery Mercs. Maintaining value is important, but that is a concept you fail to grasp... Unlike you, I'm new to the Merc world..bought my 300CE new in May of 1988...and you were driving what in 1988 ? Twenty two years of ownership really can't match your in depth knowledge... Go get a lease if you can afford it...be my guest...( by the way the Black Series still is not a $65K car...) lease be more then your rent... Working smart and hard has its rewards.... What have I contributed, not much in your mind...but who cares !!! Technology does change and perhaps you don't have the skill or capacity to work with older technology... I guess you probably may even be unfamiliar with carburetors... Why not take a 60's Aston Martin Vantage engine and remove the triple 45DCOE's...or the SU's on a 3.8 Jag...or modernize the injection on a 300SL ... Only because you would end up with what you own...$3K beaters... Good luck with your efforts... I don't knock what others do, only respond to those that tend to tell me what I'm doing wrong...
__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg 1971 280SL ROADSTER 1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY 1994 E320 CABRIOLET 1999 C43 AMG 2005 G55K AMG 2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
|
|
#143
08-25-2010, 03:56 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
How many have trashed engines... Check the underhood temp with a pyrometer using a big turbo on a 124... Good luck..I'm out of here..
__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg 1971 280SL ROADSTER 1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY 1994 E320 CABRIOLET 1999 C43 AMG 2005 G55K AMG 2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
|
|
#144
08-25-2010, 04:48 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
So true..it is a matter of what you can afford...and if things break it gets expensive.. Only trying to maintain some reality checks in what you are attempting...you don't care then why should I !!! Some posters who are "serious tuners" give the impression that setting up EFI is simple.... Based on the questions you constantly ask, my guess is it will cost you a small fortune and you still may have problems... Turbocharging regardless of your fuel/ignition control is not easy... Say you you want about what I do with my vehicles but the only thing I ever broke was the clutch in my DB6 Aston Martin Vantage as I missed a downshift with the ZF box entering the Big Bend at Lime Rock in a 1985 SVRA event. Only breakage in 45 years of owning and racing performance cars...from max performance full race Hemi's to radical AMG cars... Guess I'm just lucky ? Just a few quotes from over the years...not being critical of any of the individuals below as they have made power but in some instances it's been trial and error... A few Roman quotes : "My transmission allmost broke. Bottomstock bearing is dead so I think that its not to late to fix it. But I have no time to do it now so I took another trans from some janky 300ce sportline on my friends backjard. This tran getrag 717450 must be stronger then my old 717404 I hope this trnas can hold this summer" "Now I v finaly killed the engine For 1 week agow when I was driving at the highway at 2bar one of the radiator water pipes came loose and I lost all water the same time I was racing with some motorcycle on the highway. I did not want to lose and I was driving withot water in the enine for while and headgasket broke. I had no engergi or money to fix it right away so I was driving the car for 1 week with broken gasket and I got more and more water in the oil inside the engine every day but I keeped on driving at 2bar and 9000rpm the whole week before the engine began sounds strange. I have many other plans with my car and thats why I have no energi, time or money to fix the engine now so I going to fix it for the next season. So now I will have time to finish my album with my band ""We had a lot of clients blowing the engines only becaurse of bad tuning and even racing pistons and rods could not safe it..." And from Kynsi: "Piston? You mean pistons 5 of them .Those tiny turbos 1bar, one big 1.3 bar. One piston were broken long time ago because crack was polished. I suppose that piston went whith small turboes. Most of pistons had fresh cracks. Or maybe cracks just didnt move and they look like new. I think power depends fuel you use. Pumpish and his mercedes, audi and other cars, makes me think that ethanol burns "softer". " "Tomorrow im going to get another broken getrak from another diesel fellow. Maybe I can fix that gearbox whith my broken box. My box broke cluth shaft and other box is broken in fourth gear. Dont need 722.3 yet " "There are many reasons for those broken pistons. It was busy time and i had not enough time to play whith my car. My test engine was not tuned exact. Example first pulls 1.3bar and mercedes fuelcut-limiter took place 6000rpm...many times over and over, till I noticed what was wrong  .That kills pistons... " Jay Rash: "Its a discouraging post !!!!!, unfortunately it might be very true as my engine after 25k KM with the turbo kit suffered the following: - 1st and 6th rod clearances were off - piston 1 suffered broken ring. - piston 1 has a very very slight deformation on the ring land. But i have to admit that my car had very high mileage on it before the turbo kit. Then during the first few 1000 km with the kit, the engine ran lean at the top end with knock on every other full run." Joreto "Small update, the engine is in the car and it's running very nicely (covered 150km ), however it's still detonating and I can't figure out why (timing is down to 19 degrees at 0.5 bars and AFR is ~ 11.8). I'm starting to suspect the Megasquirt setup (ignition part). Bad news is that something in the clutch broke Sunday so these days the gearbox has to come off, hope there is not a lot of damage. Btw does anyone have an idea of how I can measure the ignition timing with the timing gun while driving the car (i.e. under load) ? " "Finally good news. Today I solved the detonation problems, now I can drive the car in boost with no detonation. Problem was in the setup of megasquirt , specifically in the bosch ignitor setting . "
__________________
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg 1971 280SL ROADSTER 1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY 1994 E320 CABRIOLET 1999 C43 AMG 2005 G55K AMG 2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES
|
|
#145
08-25-2010, 05:27 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
To Ed and all the guys here,
im with ED on not pushing those engines to the limit if one is looking for a trouble free car. I was making over 220Hp on the wheels as stated by several runs with a Gtech on just 7.5 pSI and a tiny air filter and no alcinjection. car got seriously faster at 10 psi and the alc kit. i for one stuck wiith CIS and even without extra injectors and i manged to keep it going for 25000km of seriuos heavy abuse, drag races and up hill runs like the ones in my vids. but I am sure had i switched to Mega SA i would have made alot more power and with that would have pushed every little part of the car to its breaking limit. I am sure the diff on those cars cant take much more than 400lbft before they start clocking. My diff which was already replaced before the turbo kit, yet was already on its last breath in just 25000km of boosted power, and my car is auto and not a manual where i can just dump the thing off the line. My say is, if u can afford the time, money and effort to go with EFI do it, but dont go pushing the boost up, and you will have a gr8 car that will hardly put a foot wrong. If u cant afford it the CIS will work and will help u make more than enough power to make you worry abt every other mechanical part of the car. but please guys, and i ask as a favor which u can respect or just throw away, please keep this forum nice and calm for out of all the forums out there this is the only one i have seen in which members have never stepped on each others feet. and i am sure that alot like it this way. have fun and thnx
__________________
Jay, ----------------- -1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;( -1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady) -1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman Twin turbo Kit). -1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen) -1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold) -1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold) http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed 
|
|
#146
08-25-2010, 06:47 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
OK. Let's be completely honest here as I don't want squabbling on this thread any longer. Pls guys!
Quote:
 Quote:
I hated writing the way I did & apologise for any offense period! I do however maintain that opinionated people makes for good debate but should never become condescending. Noone appreciates being put down. It takes different strokes (& builds) to make this monotonous world go 'round.... Quote:
a) These cars are usually OLD engines & are TRASHED, prior to damage!!! b) TUNING problems with stand Alones. Right??? = Set up was WRONG!!! This is why I have an expert tuning man build my car in his workshop! Food for thought! LPG resists detonation better than pump gas & so n & so on...... I personally & honestly don't think anyone with any sense would purchase ANY 300E with view for resale! There are heaps around & they aren't exactly high performance cars off the factory floor. Enthusiasts are all that buy them now. They are potential money pits unless very, very well maintained by previous owners. There are always cheap examples on EBay down here even. 190E's are like cancer cells down here mind you. See the things everywhere. What impresses me beside the comfort & strength & reliability of the original basic style K-Jetronic set ups etc is the strength of these engines in stock form They CAN & DO handle punishment & imo if you back off the punishment you will still have an awesome car that will be reliable. Btw. My trans has been rebuilt, shift kit added & 2500rpm stall converter fitted so, don't think it will be too weak somehow. Again. Due to my car being built in the confines of a performance workshop & fully dynoed to ensure fuel maps, AFR's are constant. Why are we even contemplating problems with my build? Pls explain your fears as I don't understand I have replaced the tailshaft coupling, engine mounts, trans mount, radiator, hoses, lines, etc etc but I will admit one thing as I'm not a dreamer. The rear end is stock 300E M103 12V so, I see this & tailshaft (basically rear end running gear) as the weakest link & reason why I will never tramp the thing off the mark nor shift down & hammer it. Why would I ever need too? Car will have more streetable power than I could ever hope to use imo, only, I know I can have fun though, whenever I choose to due to $$$$'s spent in build
__________________
um.....why have men got nipples Last edited by BAD300; 08-25-2010 at 07:47 PM.
|
|
#147
08-25-2010, 07:39 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Thrashing stuff is usualy about how much expereince do you have. You MUST break some stuff to learn stuff.
Learn how to tune, learn what parts you can use, what manifold and turbocharger to make relieble effect curve and get maximum Nm at higher RPM to make softer curve for your drivetrain. Many things to learn. Saying that EFI thrashing the engines and CIS is more realible is the most stupid thing I ever heard That RBYCC posting allmost 4 year old post of mine is allmost fanny. My second setup was 2006-2007 and it was before we even started the turbobandit.com 2004 i did not even know how the engine look like. Last 3-4 years we have built many turbo cars, not only mercedes and I think most of you have seen it on youtube. All off us in our company drives Turbo mercedes every day and why I am not posting every each day about our cars is that I have no time and I dont want tell everybody what we realy do with a trannys and other stuff to handle the power becaurse it took time to find out and make many tests and much work becaurse today we get pay and sell those parts. Today I can say that most realible turbo car i even seen is Mercedes 124, m103/m104turbo. With right parts you can use every day for very very long time and drive very very hard! Next week we have a new Video on youtube, our first video about our 4 daily drive mercedes and how we drive them every day. This is my favorite video and I belive that you guys will like it!
__________________
MB 300E 24v Turbo MS3X TURBOCHARGE YOUR MERCEDES www.turbobandit.com My band! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Turbobandit/135610656626424?fref=ts
|
|
#148
08-25-2010, 08:01 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
You put in the hard work & so now reap the benefits. Good on you! Quote:
 Don't worry buddy. Proofs in what you do & have now. We know what it's about! It's called PROGRESS Your past hard work is now paying off for you & helps others with their particular builds.
__________________
um.....why have men got nipples
|
|
#149
08-25-2010, 09:43 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Any chance we could get a mod to delete the last page or two?? There's pretty much no good info and makes it a pain in the ass to find stuff later on....
__________________
'85 190, unrego'd (prospect track car) '87 190e, manual (kinda rare in australia) '89 260e
|
|
#150
08-25-2010, 09:55 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
 Happens on other members threads in this section too btw.....
__________________
um.....why have men got nipples
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
