BAD 300E project commenced - Page 17 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

RBYCC · #**241** 12-28-2010, 08:17 AM

Hi Tim

I found the "Service Instructions" publication from TurboTechnics.
This is for the M103-12V

Under service settings:
Ignition timing: 39-43 BTDC @ 3200RPM ( Standard)
Idle Speed: 650-700RPM
CO Setting: 1.3-1.7% C.O.

C.O. at high idle ( 2000-3000 RPM ) should drop to 0.5%.
This is with the vehicle stationary.
On rolling road test, steasy C.O.readings should be less then 1.0% off boost conditions.

The above is based on the piggy back unit supplied by TurboTechnics.

I use a Split Second stand alone to controlt the two additional injectors under boost.

This gives in essence two seperate fuel control systems..
Stock Merc which allows me to pass the idle emissions test with about zero emissions.

My state only requires a "sniffer tail pipe test" at idle.

There are no published MAPs from TT, basically on a dyno I found the AFR's to be all over the place and very inconsistent under boost...usually extremely lean which is why they used a Hobbs switch to retard timing.
The Split Second MAP created on the dyno gives me about 11.7 under boost.

Ed A.

BAD300 · #**242** 12-28-2010, 08:29 AM

Thanks Ed. So helpful

I want to build a case for these turbo'd beauties to get registered minus the rip off emissions fee. Just need to piece things together prior to having it out with Rego' dept authorities

RBYCC · #**243** 12-28-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAD300

Thanks Ed. So helpful

I want to build a case for these turbo'd beauties to get registered minus the rip off emissions fee. Just need to piece things together prior to having it out with Rego' dept authorities

Tim

PM your email..

I can scan the TT sales brochure that mentions Hughes of Beaconsfield as the main UK Merc dealer that did the installs and provided the one year new car warranty...

Might give some legitimacy..
Do you have the TT plate with the date and serial number ?

Ed

BAD300 · #**244** 12-28-2010, 04:18 PM

I don't have anything of authenticity at all Ed concerning the TT builds. I very much doubt these were ever even considered nor known about down here back when they came on the scene. Was it the late 80's or indeed the early 90's?

Any hard evidence (on paper) to support these cars were sold new/professionally modified from an authentic workshop, would give a case to support any stock 300E to be likewise modded/tuned to those established parameters. Even if only in theory (on paper), the fact similar mods were performed to new sold cars would provide a case to present to annul the "necessity" of emissions test @ $1600 a pop

(reason noone hardly bothers doing mods to any stock vehicle they expect to legalise) Becoming very tough on modding here down under, especially in the state I live

I just hope that the sales broucher from Beaconsfield, as you mention along with anything else, is perhaps the hard proof needed to build a case for these M103 300E's coming out with FI (forced induction, not fuel inj' btw

).

At the very least, this would allow me to present a case to emissions techy & then take to engineers shop. Be worth it to me to even give it a go

PM'ing email address now.

RBYCC · #**245** 12-29-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAD300

I don't have anything of authenticity at all Ed concerning the TT builds. I very much doubt these were ever even considered nor known about down here back when they came on the scene. Was it the late 80's or indeed the early 90's?

Any hard evidence (on paper) to support these cars were sold new/professionally modified from an authentic workshop, would give a case to support any stock 300E to be likewise modded/tuned to those established parameters. Even if only in theory (on paper), the fact similar mods were performed to new sold cars would provide a case to present to annul the "necessity" of emissions test @ $1600 a pop

(reason noone hardly bothers doing mods to any stock vehicle they expect to legalise) Becoming very tough on modding here down under, especially in the state I live

I just hope that the sales broucher from Beaconsfield, as you mention along with anything else, is perhaps the hard proof needed to build a case for these M103 300E's coming out with FI (forced induction, not fuel inj' btw

).

At the very least, this would allow me to present a case to emissions techy & then take to engineers shop. Be worth it to me to even give it a go

PM'ing email address now.

Tim

Email sent !

Ed A.

nick.ged · #**246** 12-29-2010, 05:20 PM

i also have numerous magazine articles from the time with the tt in, one i recall is 320tt v's a 4.0l irmisher senator, i will try to find them for you.

BAD300 · #**247** 12-29-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBYCC

Tim

Email sent !

Ed A.

Got it. Every piece of hard evidence has to count. Will be talking with emissions & engineer people in the New Year once I get a hard case together. Especially paperwork concerning the 300E M103 TT variants

Thanks heaps Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick.ged

i also have numerous magazine articles from the time with the tt in, one i recall is 320tt v's a 4.0l irmisher senator, i will try to find them for you.

Be very helpful with my case to the authority peoples Nick. Again, this forum comes up with the help for it's members. You guys are legends. But you knew that right

BAD300 · #**248** 01-02-2011, 03:44 PM

Rear screens in

I will be finishing off re-sculpturing the damaged outer lips on rims today. Never did get anything back from the bassad who sold me them damaged. He still denies they'd been in any kind of accident etc

Anyway, has anyone down under had mandrel bent intercooler piping work done? I am having this as part of the workshop fabrication work but it is friggin expensive

Not unlike mandrel bent exhaust. I figure the aluminium bends are more difficult or perhaps involve more careful/tedious work than simple mild steel?

Any comments from anyone ever having this kind of aluminium work done??

Pagz · #**249** 01-03-2011, 12:31 AM

Mandrel bent alloy shouldn't be much more if any more expensive than stainless or steel,it may be the low volume than hikes the price but i wouldnt expect to pay anymore than $10nzd per bend extra over steel.are you supplying the bends or them?.

BAD300 · #**250** 01-03-2011, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagz

Mandrel bent alloy shouldn't be much more if any more expensive than stainless or steel,it may be the low volume than hikes the price but i wouldnt expect to pay anymore than $10nzd per bend extra over steel.are you supplying the bends or them?.

No they supply it new. There is roughly a $20 a bend difference between mild steel & SS here in OZ last time I checked. There are a few places here I've found that mandrel bend aluminium but it's a public holiday here today lol so can't contact them as yet.

I was opting for aluminium tubing this time around for IC due to the old piping made of heavy steel cracking the joiners from the hanging weight. Want this to be a 1 off job too! Not doing agian later down track.

Workshop has quoted me $900 supply/fit complete aluminium intercooler pipe work, joins, clamps (everything) minus the intercooler itself, being extra $220

sorta burns my vine a bit.

The 3" complete exhaust system from dump pipe to tail made from mild steel including all mufflers, resonators, cat, mandrel bends etc is quoted @ $900 also with custom dump pipe @ $350. Double that in SS haha......I'm just grabbin a beer folk.......

BAD300 · #**251** 01-03-2011, 05:50 PM

Been able to stand back & evaluate what in fact I'm attempting to achieve here with this build. A more conscientious, informed look at least. I've been down with a heavy chest cold & so although feelin' like crap, had the time to reflect (when head has been clear lol) on just what this build is about. Aside from the obvious huge expense.

I asked myself if there is a stock performance car that can handle mega power that you don't have to strengthen & brace up. I've looked at the FWD Volvo 850 R with it's 2.3L 5 cyl turbo engine. Puts out about 180fly kw's! Wonder if that chassis could withstand double that output? the front end/ running gear for specifically? I don't think so. WOuld be ike pouring mega power into a Mazda MX6 FWD I guess. They aren't made to handle too much excess grunt. You'd be beefing up everything.

Thing with this W124 M103 build of mine. The engine will handle the mega power. Stock! Chassis, well I'll brace it as I need to & am considering getting a firmer flex plate or adding a steel plate insert (as has been discussed by some n the flex plate thread here) before trans is installed.......still considering. That would pretty much take care of the wear/vibration of the running gear side of things at least.

Leveling with you guys now: I could buy an excellent 97' Volvo 850 R, 180kw with very low klm's on it in VGC. Brillant Red, black leather/suede seats. All the jazz & be more comfortable than the old leather Merc seats in the 300E for $8500 ish, right now. This is less than what the 300E will still be costing me to get on the road driveable!

EDIT: The Volvo has 12 months rego & RWC....There's another load of cash added to Merc just there.......

Coming straight at ya! If it cold handle mega power added to it, same goes for the later S70 R with same donk/power output & the 98' on S80 with 200kw output 6 cyl twin turbo, I prolly would consider it & can this project! But I for one do not like this kind of power put to the wheels via FWD set up

Even if you did use nolethane or solid filled stock engine mounts, what about the drive shafts for one? FWD platforms are just way too jumpy & hyperactive with putting the power down imo. I know where 4 cyl Jap turbocharged cars are concerned, the transmissions are the weak link. Mazda guys fit the EVO boxes to their high performance cars but again, look at the expense? That's why never bothered to turbo charge the V6 MX6 I owned not long ago (not my current daily auto haha). Reliabilty issues! You'd be bustin' stuff up front all the time with a decent boost set up. Mild set up? Fine! Over 200fwkw's @ even say 10psi? er.....no thanks

Lookinmg @ the 2001 supercharged HSV Holden Commodore XU6 with 185kw. That's all! They ditched it after the 2003 VY series (I think) due to disgruntled prospective buyers perceiving the lack of power output. It merely equaled the base HSV 5.0L V8 (185kw) sold together with it. Why would you bother???

SO......what's all this then? I think @ least some will agree. If you want mega power WITH reliable, breathtaking performance to go with it, You will pay for it! IE: Modified IM/EM to aid spool time. Mandrel bent piping again to aid spool time. Renew/modify trany so it gets the power to the wheels more efficiently & doesn't slouch like an old terd. Then you can think about replacing diff, shocks etc etc........

SO SO.....why don't I can this 300E money pit project & go buy a Nissan R33/4 GTR RWD powerhouse if I want mega reliable power? Have certainly considered it over last few days. Especially being screwed around by workshop & ripped off/mucked around by a-holes with gear left right & centre over the past 12 months. Or what about an early 90's Beema with luxurious leather interior you only find & smell in a seating room at the Hilton?

REASON? Every neighborhoods' got one & they are just "cop bate" as far as I'm concerned. Plus. Everyone wants to drag you & all that crap! The hassles. No thanks

MagnumPI · #**252** 01-03-2011, 08:42 PM

Audi S4 2.7TT stock 250. Turbo upgrades, clutch, ecu tune. $8000-10000+price of the car. 500-600hp. Hell, ecu and exhaust puts you at 350hp. Flywheel's often stock with the high HP guys. Transmission is bulletproof.
RX7 Turbo is easy hp, with any kind of chassis reinforcement imaginable, plus some stuff you can't, being available bolt-on.
If you can get Skylines, I'd hit that. Eff the reputation.
Having other people do the work is a buzz kill, though. No good help anymore.

BAD300 · #**253** 01-03-2011, 09:16 PM

Yeah Magnum. I wasn't going into real late model stuff & what power is out there. Just roughly comparing what we can get outta the 300E with what was available in the 90's mainly. Consider the 86' Porsche 944 Turbo. One of the all-time fastest cars of it's time. Early to mid 80's produced only 220bhp. Update model pushed to 250hp with larger turbo ext' housing & upgraded factory ECU etc. 300bhp was achievable with a performance chip offered them soon after. What's thatin real hp terms? Less than 200wkw's! True it managed top speed of 150-160mph in stock form but even the early NA Cosworth 2.3L 190E's were recorded averaging 150+ mph on race track. The Evo 2.5's were even better in the 90's. True the street-released ones were de-tuned, like any limited performance production car but still! Not much had real kw power & even if it did. To buy a 2nd hand one now. You'd still have to do maintenance or replace engine/running gear unless you were fortunate to find a genuine low klm one meticulously looked after & not flogged. Never ends.

Magnum. your right. This workshop has finished my trust in them for good. Once car is home after all the specialised work's done that I couldn't do (even if I had the time, which I don't) I' ll be making time to fit brake upgrade, struts, extensive sound system install & anything else that'll be needed. Never going back to a shop in it's life. As I always did before hand. Do it myself!

Main reason I had to take this car to such an experienced workshop in the first place was due to the LPG & the bodgy way it had been set up by previous owner. Engine, gearbox, running gear. All set up to fail. Waste of mega $$$$'s Forging the engine only to run it lean due to half-wit set up. He spent more time & money on bull**** like "duco matching fibreglass sub cradle & engine cover, as you can see in original pics when I got it home. A wacker! Mate. I'm interested in the performance/reliabilty side of this build. At least initially.

Incidently. The engine cover sits around side of house. Won't be going back on!

nick.ged · #**254** 01-05-2011, 07:35 AM

dont get disheartened, it is a long road to success, but will be worth it.

not sure about the 900$ you want to spend on inter-cooling pipes ect, i did all my pipework for around 50gbp, admitted i weld my own, but you must be able to get pipes, silicones and straights to make it up for cheaper than 900$, mandrel bent will make small differences for a road car, not worth that cost in my mind.

as for 90's cars that rock, i always wanted a bimmer m635csi, but they were mega money back in the day. they were the fastest accelerating 30 to 70 in 4th gear car in the lists in the back of auto mags for many years.

trans will handle upto 800 bhp from the factory,(my mate had a genuine rs500 cosworth, which was heavily tuned with wich he did bruntingthorpe at 197mph, which used a m6 getrag box) the sauber team used the exact same engine in there race cars, with lowered comps and twin turbo.

i have seen recent ones in uk as low as 5000£, nearly brought one when i got the alfa for the missus,(glad i didnt, the alfa does 50 odd to the very expensive gallon) and i cant two time my amg lady now, i would want to slap turbos on ( they make massive power with turbos...) and it would all get messy again.

if i had all the money id spent on my car, in my hand in one lump sum, id but a m635csi and a skyline, and be done with it. (well i'd also maybe buy a 300e and turbo it, they make mucho power, apparently, no i'm loosing it again, doctor, brint the pills)

JayRash · #**255** 01-05-2011, 12:19 PM

do it right on a w124 ie: stand alone and no more than 12 psi and the w124 will live forever and be one fast ride. stop worrying dude just put a plan and follow thru. ur a smart man, read around and study how to tune an MS and just carry on with the build.

i studied the CIS by my self and in the end i made it work somehow with nothing extra on the sys. wasnt perfect, but for the budget it was ok.