BAD 300E project commenced - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BAD300 · #1 02-03-2010, 05:25 AM

Hi all, was told about you guys from 2 other forums. I have recently purchased an 87' 300E that has been well, kinda modded

It has however suffered @ the hands of the previous owner/builder. Let's say I got it in the nick of time before he well & truely crucified it!

I need some parts & advice so, here it is. I'll wack up just enough pics to show you the car & that I am serious. As you will quickly see, this previous owner has spent alot of $$$$ & love/time on this. It has forgies & MSD stand alone for fuel/spark. Also, it runs on constant LPG via mixer!
I intend to finish & fix uo the balls-up so to speak.

Right now I am in process of removing engine block & taking it to my builder for resurrection. It's hard to believe this engine has done only 4k since full rebuild, although it was done some years ago & has sat & well, is stuffed now!

First part, I am after is a custom exhaust manifold. The spaghetti/spider type with equal runners. Either stainless or steampipe. It currently has modified orig' 2-piece manifold. Not my favourite

Turbo is currently TO3 highflowed to TO4 but, looks as though it has succumbed to same fate as poor engine. So, if I get another turbo, what are good performance options?

I am turbo savvy but admit, right now to all, not Mercedes savvy & am willing to learn from ones that know. Any advice is very appreciated.

I know & have read of stock M103 engines with twin turboes etc. I am interesterd in this engine seeing the full potential of bullet-proof bottom end taking way more boost than 7-10psi. Like, 20-25 @ least.

Here's a pic of the similar manifold I'm after. This is actually from your forum:

Car Pics:

400Eric · #2 02-03-2010, 06:36 AM

I'm afraid I'll be learning from you more than I'll be teaching.
Two things I would advise however is for you to install the piston oil squirters and windage tray from the M104 if that hasn't been done already.
That header is for a four valve head. (But you probably already knew that.)
This project is cool. (You probably already knew that too!)
Jay, isn't this thing cool?
Regards, Eric

BAD300 · #3 02-03-2010, 08:15 AM

I know this car is wicked but I must confess I'm just starting with it. The last guy gave up after he let it sit too long

My first step, since I'm forced to rebuild engine is to toss the stock ext mani. Any advice from here would be great!

thanks guys

Turbo E320 · #4 02-03-2010, 08:53 AM

For some reason the fuel injector bungs are plugged on your intake, I guess it's an older fuel system than the CIS fed M103's have in the states. Get a stock manifold with the fuel injector bungs(or make one) along with at least a fuel rail and 36-1 trigger wheel from turbobandit.com. With those you can start putting a new ECU setup on the car to handle the turbo a lot better.

JayRash · #5 02-03-2010, 09:53 AM

there is no CIS like this on any merc, seems like its been converted to some sort of carb system!!!! or just TB Injectors.

MAG58 · #6 02-03-2010, 11:04 AM

Gentlemen, that's not CIS. Read the first post. That's and LPG mixer.

He's runnin' off the stuff you make your hot-dogs with.

Joreto · #7 02-03-2010, 11:07 AM

I may be missing something , but I don't see injectors on this pictures. All I can see is the LPG evaporator (think thats what you call it). Looks like this is a very old LPG system, the new ones are injected and work very well . Looking at the pics I also think this car runs only on LPG .

P.S. is there a mixer on top of the throttle body ?

JayRash · #8 02-03-2010, 11:43 AM

ya and silly us guys cause the OP mentioned it in his post :$

edit: its either all of us were posting at abt the same time, or non of us are reading here, but for MAG. hahahah

and Mag as i have heard LPG has high octane and thus will resist detontation better. its just that u need alot of it to reach proper AFRs

Joreto · #9 02-03-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

ya and silly us guys cause the OP mentioned it in his post :$

edit: its either all of us were posting at abt the same time, or non of us are reading here, but for MAG. hahahah

and Mag as i have heard LPG has high octane and thus will resist detontation better. its just that u need alot of it to reach proper AFRs

Yep, seems MAG posted while I was writing my post

. Yes LPG has higher octane and it's common to advance the timing a bit when running LPG. We have two turbo cars here running on LPG (the new injected type) and they run fine but not as good as on petrol. Currently a friend converted his turbo E36 328i to LPG, on petrol it runs @ 1 bar but on LPG it starts leaning out after 0.5, so now his waiting for bigger LPG injectors.

BAD300 · #10 02-03-2010, 03:19 PM

hahaha rofl, musta looked quite weird if you didn't read the finer points

Can anyone suggest where I can get a hold of a good custom turbo exhaust manifold then to suit this 12v head?

Just to clear up the set up car is running, it's running Air Research LPG mixer set up, as seen on inlet manifold in pic LPG mixer is managed via MSD stand alone, as in bottom pic. Yes, it would be better system if it had LPG injection but, mixer still can work well.

I intend putting bigger LPG jets in it & dynotune properly once engne is sorted. The block has been o'ringed too.

Whether car has sat with old coolant in it or seller run bad tune etc, I don't know but I have had to get a reco head & now need to have engine rebuilt again. To save anymore confusion, here are some pics of the raped engine

You can see the heat problem the head suffered:

This shows rusted, grooved bore. Just to think it's done 3k since build with forgies

MAG58 · #11 02-03-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

ya and silly us guys cause the OP mentioned it in his post :$

edit: its either all of us were posting at abt the same time, or non of us are reading here, but for MAG. hahahah

and Mag as i have heard LPG has high octane and thus will resist detontation better. its just that u need alot of it to reach proper AFRs

Actually LPG resists Det VERY well and here in the states is much cheaper than Gasoline. The problem with LPG though is that in a mixer situation (a mixer is the same thing as a gas carb), a much greater volume of the intake charge is taken up by the gaseous LPG as opposed to the liquid gasoline which means that less net charge can enter the chamber. A direct injected LPG engine would make crazy power, run cleaner, and be able to run some pretty silly CR's.

The only other problem is that LPG doesn't have any lubricating properties that gas has on the valve stem, so you get much more wear on an already stressed part. There's pro's and con's to both.

intrepid1981 · #12 02-03-2010, 06:03 PM

I saw this car for sale a while back on carsales... i'm in melbourne too, interested to see how this goes.

BAD300 · #13 02-03-2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAG58

Actually LPG resists Det VERY well and here in the states is much cheaper than Gasoline. The problem with LPG though is that in a mixer situation (a mixer is the same thing as a gas carb), a much greater volume of the intake charge is taken up by the gaseous LPG as opposed to the liquid gasoline which means that less net charge can enter the chamber. A direct injected LPG engine would make crazy power, run cleaner, and be able to run some pretty silly CR's.

The only other problem is that LPG doesn't have any lubricating properties that gas has on the valve stem, so you get much more wear on an already stressed part. There's pro's and con's to both.

too true MAG....bit difficult an engine to sort from here really due to the M103 being mechanical injection only

That's why IM injector ports were bunged. To run it basically as a carb (how it's set up now). Also, for ease of putting back to petrol (gas in US). Liquid injection would be nice but very expensive & uses different cylinder & everything else btw. This is way over my budget & intension for car

A mixer indeed yield good results but I believe it is the tune ie AFR that is the concern here. This engine has suffered heat/corrosion. No brainer. Just what went wrong I won't know fully til' rebuilder has a sqiz. I believe it ran too lean amongst other things.

Rebuild was an abortion full stop!

On a brighter note, I have sourced a brilliant LPG man near where I live so, will be talking to him soon. He does the Gas Research conversions down here. After rebuild, he can get it right from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intrepid1981

I saw this car for sale a while back on carsales... i'm in melbourne too, interested to see how this goes.

Yep, he resorted to EBay auction

I knew what I was getting though, other than the rooted engine of course, that was a bonus

Whereabouts in Melbourne are you? I'll have to catch up when it's all ready to roll

400Eric · #14 02-04-2010, 01:37 AM

LPG has an octane rating of 110 (R+M/2 method. It's actually a higher number when rated by the Euro rating system). This means you can run way more boost before detonation occurs (provided the AFR is correct). That's why I said this car is cool.
Regards, Eric

Turbo E320 · #15 02-04-2010, 02:41 AM

Solution. Convert to EFI and run E85. 105 Octane (R+M/2) and cheaper than regular gas(at least here in the states). You'll have to update the lines and use a more current fuel pump like a Bosch 044(About $200 and flows enough gas to support 685bhp) but it's worth it.

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