yes Gael, late block. 616 is doing the design/fabrication, so I'll let him spec what he wants from me. Band saw in hand, I can cut out a bell or the tail end of block if needed. That's his call.

Thx -CTH

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From an earler post of Glen:


"I have also noted the following:

the washer bolting on the follower and the crankshaft p/n is 116 032 05 76 and is common to the M116, M117 M119 and M120 engines. I also noted that the follower is common the the M117, M119 and M120 engines. Ring gears are different, but as they bolt on the same follower their bolt pattern is the same.

I know for a fact that the M116 manual flywheel and 240mm clutch assy bolt on the M117, but its outer diameter is bigger than the alloy blocks. One solution , as mentioned by Pagodino here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=149940&page=5 is to machine down the diameter of the M116 flywheel until it matches the diameter of the required ring gear. This machined flywheel would fit the M117, 119 and 120 engines. It can also accomodate a BMW M3/M5 240mm clutch disk which would in turn accept the Getrag trans input shaft.

Let's sum up:
- One common adaptor plate and throwout mechanism for M117 119 and 120 engines do adapt a Getrag 265 to their respective bell housings;
- One machined M116 manual flywheel to accomodate the M117 119 and 120 ring gears;
- one BMW M5 clutch disc

and we shouldn't be too far form a nice conversion kit.

For the M112 and M113 engines, I noted that one version of the M112 came with a manual transmission. But the ref of the crankshaft washer is different, do I don't know if the crankshafts share the same bolt pattern with M117 119 120 engines."

______________________________________________________________


I have been reviewing this thread as I thought members had posted more information on compatible parts that would work with a little mod.

If the M117 trans never came with a separateable bell housing, then is the M119 bell housing (with it's one bolt misalignment), close enough to make work, (the bolt boss could be made)?

If that is the case, then as stated above, all one has to do is acquire the flywheel that is mentioned, get the housing for a M119, and a Getrag 265 trans, and with enough engine measurements to make a mock up here, I can put a package together.

Depending on the weight of the block and crank, it would be awesome to have the real bock with the crank in it to build from.

Also from what I read in review, The bell housing that you sent me will fit a M113 engine? but not positive on my part.

That post was from me, not from Glen. I have read that the M117 and M119 bolt patterns were the same but for one hole from someone who did the experiment. But in the meantime Pagodino had someone compare the two bolt patterns and apparently they are not that similar. So this should be checked again before investing time and money.

Sorry, My bad. At least I got the "G" right. LOL

Anyway, I really like the two piece auto bell housings as they have lots of room and are stout. Cutting off the housing from a one piece auto trans should be a last resort IMOP, but doable none the less.

I have an M112 v6 from an ML that didn't survive an engine compartment fire. Basically I saved it for the bolt pattern of the crank and rear plate. Been meaning to take the sawzall to the block and save just the last few inches of it and scrap the rest. Sounds like it's time I do that.

I think I know where I can get a transmission from an M119.

That bell housing I sent you definitely should be for an M112, but once I take care of that first problem, we'll know for sure.

As for the M116 iron block flywheel, I have exactly two of those, both are close to being scrap. They are 1,500$ new from the classic center (add 150$ for the ring gear). If you think they can be cloned from a 3rd party blank, I would dearly love a good one as I have three of the 4-speed transmissions that they are used with.

Thx -CTH

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I wonder if there was a change in the case between early and late 119 engines. I have heard of changes in other areas of the case.

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John Roncallo

When you cut the block, leave enough to support the crank, and cut the crank as well, so the fly wheel and trans can be hung if you know what I mean.

I received your e-mail, I'll send the bell housing back.

Duplicating fly wheels is a good down time fill in job for when my lathe is does not have a job assigned to it. I would need to see it, but I am sure we could work something out.

Thought; If MB did not use a two piece auto trans behind the M117, then does anyone have an one piece auto trans that could be sacrificed? I was thinking that if it was cut behind the pump section, that the result would be very close to a two piece auto bell housing. Unless the one and two piece transmissions used different sized converters, the area that is available inside the housing should be very close. This would also possibly eliminate any welding that is structurally related, as welding cast can result in low strength depending on the quality of the casting.

Any thoughts?

I think I'm missing something:

Charlie, you want a bellhousing to mate a Getrag 265 to a later M117 block, and you're sending an M112 block and crankshaft section. The M112 and the M117 do not have the same bolt pattern in the back, and the crankshafts neither. Further, I believe the M112 has been mated to some manual transmissions, so I don't see the advantage of fabricating something that can be had as a used part.

M116 3.5 flywheels will bolt on the later M117 crankshafts but their diameter is too big to fit in the auto trans housing, which also supports the starter motor. Reproducing some of them will be good for the 3.5 trans you have to fit behind 3.5 and 4.5 iron blocks, but won't fit your Getrag 265/later M117 alloy block combo. It will need to be machined to bring the outer diameter down and accept the auto trans ring gear.

OM616: cutting an M117 auto trans to mate with a Getrag 265s has been done. I don't know if this involved welding but the guy used a hydraulic release bearing. The downside is accesibility problem for maintenance or replacement purposes, but if it's reliable enough to outlive a clutch disc it may be worth considering it as it may save some work in trying to adapt a yoke and an outside slave cylinder.

If cutting an auto trans means there is only some machining involved to fit it to a Getrag 265 then any interested person may have to source a shot auto trans, cut is as needed and send it to you for machinig. I think this may be a reasonably cheap option.

I prefer an external slave cylinder as well, and that would be my first approach. It is more parts and work, but the serviceability is better, plus the hydraulic throughouts are very pricey, but their use eliminates other parts, (less labor), so the end cost is probably a wash. It would also be a cleaner package.

If the cut auto housing has as stout of a pump mount surface as the two piece auto housing does, then an adaptor plate can be made for the desired trans and bolted to it. Some machining to the housing would be required obviously, but I agree that it may be the cheapest way to go. I would like to see inside a one piece auto trans first to see what there is to work with and where the best place is to cut.

GGR
"OM616: cutting an M117 auto trans to mate with a Getrag 265s has been done. I don't know if this involved welding but the guy used a hydraulic release bearing. The downside is accesibility problem for maintenance or replacement purposes, but if it's reliable enough to outlive a clutch disc it may be worth considering it as it may save some work in trying to adapt a yoke and an outside slave cylinder."


please explain more abt this? r u talking abt use of a converter in place of a cllutch? or is it something else!

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No, the plan is to use a convetional clutch. But modifying an auto bellhousing so that it can accomodate an external slave cylinder, a yoke and a release bearing can be quite some work. An easier way is to use a hydraulic release bearing, where the slave cylinder is combined with the release bearing and fitted inside the bellhousing. But you still need to use the clutch pedal connected to a master cylinder to actuate it.

Just wanted to post an up date. CTH350 and I have been talking privately and I think this is going to happen. I need to see some parts first, but I am confident that we can work something out to get him a 5-speed kit, and have a path for others.

Back in the day, there was a kit to put a manual clutch in front of a GM turbo 400 (auto) trans. I had one and it was a lot of fun.

I will take pictures as the process progresses.

Good to hear there is progress happening. I am still interested too, just haven't had time to figure out what trans will work best in regard to gear ratios and physically fitting in the trans tunnel.

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Glen Tokuhara
Beauty & the Beast and the wagon that could!

Gael, There are lots of possible applications to make work. First on the block for me and David will be mating a 5-speed transmission to the alloy M117 going into my 380slc.

In addition to that I will be sending David what spares I have to accommodate cast iron M116/117 motors, the M112/M113 and maybe even an M100. But lets learn how to walk before we fly guys.

-CTH

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Am buying a BMW 540 transmission off of ebay. The seller is in Ottowa and wants 200$ for shipping down to the US. Anybody in a position to hand carry it over the border?

Thx -CTH

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