Non MB trans to MB engines - Page 40 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

fonzi · #**586** 12-02-2019, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony H

I looked at the web site-some of the descriptions seem a little off. They describe one particular kit as fitting the m116 3.5/m100 what ever that is.
"W108/109 280SE/L Limousine 3.5 engine M116 4 to 6 speed manual transmission, engine type M100 / 116"
They also don't mention if the V8 engines are aluminum or iron. I guess if you have the money one will figure it out. For $12000 I think someone could come up with a 1 off solution for less.

Yeah. I wonder if they are like “give us your money, and we will figure it out”, or if they’ve actually already created the parts needed to make it happen.

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Tony H · #**587** 12-02-2019, 07:44 PM

I know this thread has some lengthy history but is there a bolt on solution for the M116/117 iron engines for a 5 or 6sp transmission?

cth350 · #**588** 12-02-2019, 07:47 PM

To recap for Tony and others...

There was a bolt-on solution in the form of a custom bell used by AMG some ages ago.

There will be one at some point based on what Dave and I have been playing with.

Back in history here you'll find several one-offs; some of which are inspirational and/or elegant. Variations emerge quickly which people start jawing about their favorite transmission, preferred gear or just how nice the thing looks if an adapter plate is here there or in-between. Then add variations for choice of ignition control (sensors) and it goes sideways fast.

-CTH

rwd4evr · #**589** 12-02-2019, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OM616

The Mcleod flywheel that CTH sent me takes an 11 inch pressure plate and the 420G input shaft is 1.355 in (it is specked at 35mm I believe) and has 10 splines.

BMW used a dual mass flywheel so the BMW disk is not sprung so it will not be a good choice with a single mass set up.

10 spline X 1.375 is a standard size but without fitting on on the shaft I am hesitant to order one to see. I am betting a custom disk will have to be made, but before I go and burn a bunch of time going down that route, I thought I was ask if anyone was aware of a single mass conversion for any of the cars that used the 420G with a 35mm input shaft? (as I understand it, there were two input shaft sizes, 35mm being the larger)

If one exists, then the next issue is the disk thickness and diameter. I would really prefer no less then 10.5 inches in diameter with a max of 11 inches. I also want to stay with organic.

I am very close to the point where I need to order a pressure plate and disk so I can figure out the throw-out bearing.

Any thoughts??

Edit: www.uucmotorwerks.com has a 11 inch sprung disk for one of their flywheel kits. I will call and check on cost and availability.

Be cautious about assuming a certain size and spline will interchange. Chevy and BMW both specify a 1.125 10 spline but they don't interchange. The splines are not the same thickness. I assumed I could use a BMW clutch on a Chevy trans but it doesn't slide on.

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You can try this guy, he redid a fintail clutch really nice for me. Fully rebuilt everything and relined the disc. He can build custom stuff too.

Specialty Clutch
404-753-6686
Conyers Georgia I think it was.

Tony H · #**590** 12-02-2019, 10:23 PM

Thanks for the recap. I'm not presently in the market but when I get involved in my project again I might be. I wouldn't mind keeping my original transmission on a shelf with something more available in it's place. Plus closer ratio with more gears would be nice. It's a long way between those 4 gears.

Tony H · #**591** 12-06-2019, 03:04 AM

Found this on Ebay-claims it will fit 3.5/4.5 V8 with modifications-not sure what modifications.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Manual-5-Speed-Transmission-717-402-M116-M117-M123-M127-M129-M130-M180/372795515569?hash=item56cc5822b1:g:WAMAAOSwDyRdmRGk

fonzi · #**592** 12-06-2019, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony H

Found this on Ebay-claims it will fit 3.5/4.5 V8 with modifications-not sure what modifications.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Manual-5-Speed-Transmission-717-402-M116-M117-M123-M127-M129-M130-M180/372795515569?hash=item56cc5822b1:g:WAMAAOSwDyRdmRGk

Well that claim is wrong.

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cth350 · #**593** 12-06-2019, 08:10 AM

That's the box for the straight 6. Small bell, questionable power rating. If I were to go that route, I'd use a more current, less expensive one. Like the 6speed from a c240 that is in my basement.

-cth

fonzi · #**594** 12-06-2019, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cth350

That's the box for the straight 6. Small bell, questionable power rating. If I were to go that route, I'd use a more current, less expensive one. Like the 6speed from a c240 that is in my basement.

-cth

I think the m110 and m180 family all have the starter on the passenger side, as do their contemporary diesels (I think).

I believe the m102 and the m103 + m104, and their 1987+ diesels have the starter on the left side. I think the m102 717.401 was the first 717.4 trans starting like 1981/82. I’ve got one from a 1985 w201 190e. I have an m104 I’d like to put it on, but can’t a confidently say I will get to that project before I die. I agree the 6-speed would probably be better for this kind of conversion. But the w201 price was right. It seems that the crank position sensor stuff on the 1986+ cars complicated the “bolt on” applications if you don’t have the “dual mass” flywheels that have some timing marks on them.

I don’t really know wtf I’m talking about because I’ve never done any of this stuff first hand, and if you grew up in the 80’s, you might just call me a “poser”.

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cth350 · #**595** 12-06-2019, 09:43 AM

As far as the M117 is concerned, the starter side depends on LHD or RHD (The car cares, the motor doesn't). -CTH

Roncallo · #**596** 12-06-2019, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzi

Well that claim is wrong.

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Well it does say with modifications. Just a small re casting of the bell housing modification.

Tony H · #**597** 12-06-2019, 11:53 PM

They responded back and said it would bolt on. I pretty much knew they did not know much about it by the list of engines it "fits".

Tony H · #**598** 12-07-2019, 12:04 AM

I don't plan on going that route-I just found the listing interesting. I knew it was a 6cyl box mostly because there is no V8 box. There must be enough of a demand that they listed it as a V8 solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cth350

That's the box for the straight 6. Small bell, questionable power rating. If I were to go that route, I'd use a more current, less expensive one. Like the 6speed from a c240 that is in my basement.

-cth

fonzi · #**599** 12-07-2019, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony H

I don't plan on going that route-I just found the listing interesting. I knew it was a 6cyl box mostly because there is no V8 box. There must be enough of a demand that they listed it as a V8 solution.

To clarify, it appears the 717.402 is the 280sl r107 manual transmission. That hives with everything they say in the ad other than the v8 comments.

And to think I “lent” one of these transmissions to a forum member and then suggested he help out another forum member by helping him with the electronic pickup tailcone. Dennis Hamilton was supposed to send back the w123 mechanical speedo tailcone so the transmission would at least be useful. Dennis Hamilton swears he sent the mechanical speedo tailcone but has not proof and it never showed up.

Dennis ca280sl sold all his Mercedes stuff and never even mentioned to the people and forum that helped him build his car and provided him the parts that he was selling off all his Mercedes stuff. Oh well. Maybe the tailcone from the 717.401 will work if ever needed. Those seem far more common in 190e w201 cars.

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OM616 · #**600** 12-08-2019, 07:23 PM

Getting there