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  #1  
Old 02-07-2010, 02:38 PM
10mm MW
 
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Non MB trans to MB engines

Hello Performance section,

This is my first venture out of the Diesel section, and if I may say, you have a nice place here.

It was recommended that I check over here in regards to interest in mating Non-MB transmissions to OM engines.

A couple of us in the Diesel section have come up with some viable methods to mate a Getrag 265 to a OM616/617, and equivalent, bolt pattern. The methods have been from a new aluminum die cast bell housing, (very nice), a steal fabricated scatter shield bell housing, a bell housing to engine adapter, and a trans to bell housing adaptor, but the issue is no matter the method the bottom end cost estimates are $300.00 and up, which is too much.

Is $300.00+ for a custom one off, trans or no trans, part too much?

If not any interest in any particular engine trans combination over hear?

I am interested in your thoughts.


Thank You

Dave
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2010, 03:13 PM
88Black560SL
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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$300.00 is a deal and I doubt you will get it made for $300. But in any case Id like an M120 engine to 6 speed manual bell housing.
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  #3  
Old 02-07-2010, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roncallo View Post
$300.00 is a deal and I doubt you will get it made for $300. But in any case Id like an M120 engine to 6 speed manual bell housing.

The Die Cast bell housing for the OM617 was estimated at $600.00 with a min buy of 5 or 6 I think. I can fab up a bell housing, steel or aluminum, on a onezeys bases. Price would depend on material and the amount of time and effort to get the needed dimensions to design it.

Off the top of my head to fab one up in steel would be about $475 ish and aluminum would be around $600 ish.

Isn't the 6-Speed bell housing integral to the transmission?
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2010, 05:46 PM
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Depends on the transmission. A lot of the Getrags are. Just about everything else is separate.

Even $475 is a deal. Stock Toyota 1jz/2jz bellhousings are at least $350, and they made millions.
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:00 PM
88Black560SL
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM616 View Post
The Die Cast bell housing for the OM617 was estimated at $600.00 with a min buy of 5 or 6 I think. I can fab up a bell housing, steel or aluminum, on a onezeys bases. Price would depend on material and the amount of time and effort to get the needed dimensions to design it.

Off the top of my head to fab one up in steel would be about $475 ish and aluminum would be around $600 ish.

Isn't the 6-Speed bell housing integral to the transmission?
I'm thinking of a transmission from a Chevy Camaro or something.
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  #6  
Old 02-08-2010, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roncallo View Post
I'm thinking of a transmission from a Chevy Camaro or something.

If you get one with a bolt on bell housing, then it can be done. The other issues are fly wheel shifter etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinsCE
Even $475 is a deal. Stock Toyota 1jz/2jz bellhousings are at least $350, and they made millions.
I think you guys get it.

I am looking keep food on my table so if there is a need for fabed or machined parts I would be interested in working with you to get you want is needed.

Dave
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:50 PM
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I would be interested in a cast bell housing for a M119 V8 to Tremec T56/T56 Magnum. At a $600 price point, I would buy two.
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen View Post
I would be interested in a cast bell housing for a M119 V8 to Tremec T56/T56 Magnum. At a $600 price point, I would buy two.
I passed your request for a cast bell housing along to the gentleman whom did the design and leg work on the 617 cast housing.

I am hoping he will comment directly as to his interest and any special information, Min part run, etc.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2010, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM616 View Post
I passed your request for a cast bell housing along to the gentleman whom did the design and leg work on the 617 cast housing.

I am hoping he will comment directly as to his interest and any special information, Min part run, etc.
Thank you! I am serious about buying two and I know at least one other person that would buy one as well.
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:01 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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I would be interested in a bellhousing for an alloy block M117 560 to be mated to a Tremec T56 or a Getrag 265.

There are a lot of discussions going on about converting M117s to manual transmissions. The biggest challenge is always the bell housing. I also believe the engine bolt pattern of alloy blocks M116/117 and M119 are very close. I also heard that M119 and M120 bolt patterns are similar. So it may be possible to develop one single design that would be adaptable to the M116, 117, 119 and 120. If on top of that you make it adaptable to both Tremec and Getrag on the other side you would sell tens of these bellhousings. Next would be the development of a flywheel.
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  #11  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:53 PM
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I will absolutely take one M117 to Getrag 265 bellhousing, thank you. Let me know where to send the money when the time comes.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR View Post
I would be interested in a bellhousing for an alloy block M117 560 to be mated to a Tremec T56 or a Getrag 265.

There are a lot of discussions going on about converting M117s to manual transmissions. The biggest challenge is always the bell housing. I also believe the engine bolt pattern of alloy blocks M116/117 and M119 are very close. I also heard that M119 and M120 bolt patterns are similar. So it may be possible to develop one single design that would be adaptable to the M116, 117, 119 and 120. If on top of that you make it adaptable to both Tremec and Getrag on the other side you would sell tens of these bellhousings. Next would be the development of a flywheel.
The gentleman that had been working on the other bell housing as too much on his plate. I wanted to give him first refusal for the casting work.

I had gotten some quotes to have bell housings sand casted locally and the tooling costs were crazy. I think the poor cost estimate was around $350 to $400. I have casted small engine blocks and other parts my self, but I moved my shop to my house and am storing my oven in the shed.

What I can do;

I can take all the dimensional information from the mentioned engines and transmissions, and have a cad model made. This will tell us how modular one design can be before it is made.

I can then make some molds and have them pored, and then finish machine them. That stuff is the easy part!

The hard part is getting the bolt patterns dimensioned for each engine, including crankshaft protrusion depth. This information needs to be very accurate to be valid.

I can measure transmission housings and get the information I need, so if anyone has a transmission(s) for the mentioned engines, including the desired manual transmissions, that would help.

Having as many different engines per housing will be an initial cost saver as the tooling cost can be spread over more parts made.

How many of you out there can help provide engine bolt pattern information or parts?

Flywheels are not that big of a deal but first things first.

Dave
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2010, 05:14 PM
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I should be able to give you engine bolt pattern info for an M119 as I have one sitting on a stand in my garage.
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2010, 05:40 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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I checked on EPC and all transmission castings for M117, 119 and 120 have different part numbers. Your best bet would be to find a junk yard where they have different transmissions and engines sitting around.

I'm not sure this should be developed separately from the flywheel, clutch pack and fork. They will determine the diamenter and depth of the bell housing. One avenue may be Mustang parts mated to a Tremec. The other one would be BMW parts mated to a Getrag.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2010, 05:52 PM
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Yeah, but the pictures look the same...

I know a guy with a shop might have connections with salvage yards I e-mailed about getting some engineering time. If not, I might just go asking around, there's an LKQ local.

If anyone else is interested, aside from the V8 guys, I have an M111 on a pallet. I also have a 2.3-16V transmission in a car, or if anyone has a fondness for a Supra R154, mostly due to the fact that it holds massive amounts of power for like $350, with upgrade options readily available, I'll soon have access to one of those for measurements in my garage.

Also, I do AutoCAD for a living, if you need any help with that.
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